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FIM rejections

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Created by Mamta S (NIIT Technologies) on 2011-01-13 06:33:41 Back to Topics

FIM rejections

Hello,
 
if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?
 
If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
 
Thanks for answering!
best regards
Oliver
Replied by Ashley H on 2011-01-14 14:42:16
Hi Oliver,
 
If reason code 5B is used, Coupon breakdown is mandatory. The billed amount, even though is not present in the prime billing, will have to be derived/assumed and populated in the record structure.
 
Hope this helps.
From:
Posted: Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:33 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
 
if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?
 
If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
 
Thanks for answering!
best regards
Oliver
Replied by Claudia L (Lufthansa) on 2011-01-17 08:36:02
Hi Ashley,
 
we are very concerned with this reply. We do not think that it is feasible to "assume" billed FIM values.
 
We know we have to follow this logic with taxes in case they are billed as a total from a non-migrated carrier. For taxes this might work because the values are predefined.
 
For flight coupons on FIMs this breakdown from the billed carrier does not make sense because the fare structures are so complex and have different valuation methods, i.e. published vs. unpublished fares. This assumption of a value could be a financial risk for the billing as well as the billed carrier.
 
This is why we suggest to add the coupon details in the first billing of the FIM, this is the only option we see.
Please reconsider this item.
Claudia

From:
Posted: Friday, January 14, 2011 2:42 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Oliver,
 
If reason code 5B is used, Coupon breakdown is mandatory. The billed amount, even though is not present in the prime billing, will have to be derived/assumed and populated in the record structure.
 
Hope this helps.
From:
Posted: Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:33 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
 
if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?
 
If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
 
Thanks for answering!
best regards
Oliver
Replied by Ashley H on 2011-01-31 09:43:34
Dear all,
 
We have discussed this item internally and would like to provide here a more thorough explanation regarding FIM rejections.
 

The FIM process can best be explained with an example:

·         Carrier AAA = planned operating carrier à FIM issuing carrier

·         Carrier BBB = real operating carrier à FIM receiving carrier

 

At the airport:

1.       Carrier AAA has checked-in the PAX and has the coupons
For e.g. technical reasons AAA cannot operate the flight and due to time constraints the coupons cannot be re-validated to BBB

2.       Carrier AAA issues a FIM to BBB
On the FIM all documents/cpns, Pax Name, Fare Base etc are listed
(assumption for this example: there are mainly coupons issued by AAA but also coupons of a carrier CCC on the FIM)

3.       Carrier BBB operates the flight, including PAX travelling on above FIM

Revenue Accountings of AAA and BBB:

4.       Carrier BBB has the FIM in his flight envelope.
In order to bill AAA, BBB is checking if they have a Simplified FIM agreement, Re-protection agreement, SPA or any other agreement covering FIMs between AAA and BBB

a.       If there is an agreement: Then BBB is billing AAA based on agreement

b.       If there is no agreement: then BBB is billing AAA full sector fare for the sector flown and cabin class booked

As today the calculation is hand written on the FIM.

Carrier BBB does not have the coupons, he has only the FIM. Therefore, the PAX WG decided that no coupon breakdown is needed. The calculation is visible on the FIM document, which scanned copy must be attached as supporting document.
A coupon breakdown would have meant an additional manual effort for the billing carrier.

 

Carrier BBB is billing AAA with Source Code 14 for FIM prime billing.

 

5.       Carrier AAA bills the relevant coupons to carrier CCC
and enters the issued FIM in his Rev. Acc. System
Depending on his internal processes/system carrier AAA links the coupons to the issued FIM

6.       Carrier AAA receives the FIM prime billing
… and checks if the billing is correct

In case of rejection needed:

a.       In case there is a Simplified FIM agreement (or any other agreement which does not base on the real coupon itinerary),
then RM reason 5C is used (no coupon breakdown needed).
In the reason breakdown record of the RM AAA defines the e.g. correct calculation
Supporting documents as appropriate

b.       In case of no agreement and/or the calculation is based on the coupon itinerary
The RM reason 5B is used (coupon breakdown)
And the tkt facsimile has to be attached as Supporting Document
(Note: in case of unpublished fares, the tkt facsimile would not show the real amount collected. In such a case the lowest published fare in that class is the base for the calculation).

PAX WG: the originally planned operating carrier has the coupons in his Rev. Acc. System.
When receiving the FIM, most of the systems are able to “link” the coupons with the FIM. Therefore there is no need to “manual capture” the coupons for the rejection.

Answers to your questions:

1.       if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?   If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
As stated above: If you are the FIM issuing carrier and therefore billed for it, you have the coupons (as they were check-in on you).
Yes, in the RM with 5B you will enter the values.
And yes, you have the values (either because they are shown on the ticket facsimile, etix sales attached to the flown or on the ISR received for that coupon. In case of unpublished fares you base on the lowest published fare of the compartment flown (as per RAM).

2.       For flight coupons on FIMs this breakdown from the billed carrier does not make sense because the fare structures are so complex and have different valuation methods, i.e. published vs. unpublished fares. This assumption of a value could be a financial risk for the billing as well as the billed carrier.
As stated above,
Financial risk: this is so in case of FIM. Therefore a lot of carriers have a simplified FIM agreement
Regarding published / unpublished fare: in case of unpublished fare on the ticket, then as stated above the RAM rules state that the lowest published fare is the base for the calculation.

3.       This is why we suggest to add the coupon details in the first billing of the FIM, this is the only option we see.
We disagree. The FIM billing carrier has even less information than the FIM billed carrier (who has the coupons) and additionally would need to capture all coupons into his Rev. Acc. System – with no real benefit.

I hope this answer was helpful in addressing your question.

Best regards.


From: Lufthansa
Posted: Monday, January 17, 2011 8:36 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Ashley,
 
we are very concerned with this reply. We do not think that it is feasible to "assume" billed FIM values.
 
We know we have to follow this logic with taxes in case they are billed as a total from a non-migrated carrier. For taxes this might work because the values are predefined.
 
For flight coupons on FIMs this breakdown from the billed carrier does not make sense because the fare structures are so complex and have different valuation methods, i.e. published vs. unpublished fares. This assumption of a value could be a financial risk for the billing as well as the billed carrier.
 
This is why we suggest to add the coupon details in the first billing of the FIM, this is the only option we see.
Please reconsider this item.
Claudia

From:
Posted: Friday, January 14, 2011 2:42 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Oliver,
 
If reason code 5B is used, Coupon breakdown is mandatory. The billed amount, even though is not present in the prime billing, will have to be derived/assumed and populated in the record structure.
 
Hope this helps.
From:
Posted: Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:33 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
 
if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?
 
If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
 
Thanks for answering!
best regards
Oliver
Replied by Matthew H on 2011-02-01 05:36:07
One Part of IATA's response below is not correct (quote:The calculation is visible on the FIM document, which scanned copy must be attached as supporting document)
Carrier BBB does NOT need to send a scan of the uplifted FIM as a supporting document in prime bill. The ISPG is clear that the billing of uplifted documents, coupons and FIMS does not need to be supported by the original document or by a facsimilie.
 
We would suggest the billed carrier (AAA) divides the total billed value of the FIM by the number of coupons listed on the FIM, and use this value as the "billed value" in the coupon breakdown of it's 1st stage rejection.
 
Matt Holden
BA
 

From:
Posted: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:43 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
 
if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?
 
If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
 
Thanks for answering!
best regards
Oliver
Replied by Matthew H on 2011-02-01 12:12:54
I stand corrected on my last post! Whilst ISPG para 9.3 does not list an image of a FIM as a mandatory supporting document, the RAM 2011 A2 (part2) para 2.6.1.2 requires the FIM image in support of a prime bill. Apologies.
 
Matt
BA






One Part of IATA's response below is not correct (quote:The calculation is visible on the FIM document, which scanned copy must be attached as supporting document)
Carrier BBB does NOT need to send a scan of the uplifted FIM as a supporting document in prime bill. The ISPG is clear that the billing of uplifted documents, coupons and FIMS does not need to be supported by the original document or by a facsimilie.
 
We would suggest the billed carrier (AAA) divides the total billed value of the FIM by the number of coupons listed on the FIM, and use this value as the "billed value" in the coupon breakdown of it's 1st stage rejection.
 
Matt Holden
BA
 

From:
Posted: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:43 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
 
if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?
 
If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
 
Thanks for answering!
best regards
Oliver
Replied by Lori L (Delta Air Lines) on 2011-02-18 15:33:03
Hello,
How are airlines handling the rejection of the Fim when using coupon breakdown records if the values are not the same for each underlying document of the Fim?  If we distribute the billed amount equally, it seems we could have some underbills and some overbills on the coupon breakdowns. 


From:
Posted: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:15 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Dear all,
 
We have discussed this item internally and would like to provide here a more thorough explanation regarding FIM rejections.
 

The FIM process can best be explained with an example:

·         Carrier AAA = planned operating carrier à FIM issuing carrier

·         Carrier BBB = real operating carrier à FIM receiving carrier

 

At the airport:

1.       Carrier AAA has checked-in the PAX and has the coupons
For e.g. technical reasons AAA cannot operate the flight and due to time constraints the coupons cannot be re-validated to BBB

2.       Carrier AAA issues a FIM to BBB
On the FIM all documents/cpns, Pax Name, Fare Base etc are listed
(assumption for this example: there are mainly coupons issued by AAA but also coupons of a carrier CCC on the FIM)

3.       Carrier BBB operates the flight, including PAX travelling on above FIM

Revenue Accountings of AAA and BBB:

4.       Carrier BBB has the FIM in his flight envelope.
In order to bill AAA, BBB is checking if they have a Simplified FIM agreement, Re-protection agreement, SPA or any other agreement covering FIMs between AAA and BBB

a.       If there is an agreement: Then BBB is billing AAA based on agreement

b.       If there is no agreement: then BBB is billing AAA full sector fare for the sector flown and cabin class booked

As today the calculation is hand written on the FIM.

Carrier BBB does not have the coupons, he has only the FIM. Therefore, the PAX WG decided that no coupon breakdown is needed. The calculation is visible on the FIM document, which scanned copy must be attached as supporting document.
A coupon breakdown would have meant an additional manual effort for the billing carrier.

 

Carrier BBB is billing AAA with Source Code 14 for FIM prime billing.

 

5.       Carrier AAA bills the relevant coupons to carrier CCC
and enters the issued FIM in his Rev. Acc. System
Depending on his internal processes/system carrier AAA links the coupons to the issued FIM

6.       Carrier AAA receives the FIM prime billing
… and checks if the billing is correct

In case of rejection needed:

a.       In case there is a Simplified FIM agreement (or any other agreement which does not base on the real coupon itinerary),
then RM reason 5C is used (no coupon breakdown needed).
In the reason breakdown record of the RM AAA defines the e.g. correct calculation
Supporting documents as appropriate

b.       In case of no agreement and/or the calculation is based on the coupon itinerary
The RM reason 5B is used (coupon breakdown)
And the tkt facsimile has to be attached as Supporting Document
(Note: in case of unpublished fares, the tkt facsimile would not show the real amount collected. In such a case the lowest published fare in that class is the base for the calculation).

PAX WG: the originally planned operating carrier has the coupons in his Rev. Acc. System.
When receiving the FIM, most of the systems are able to “link” the coupons with the FIM. Therefore there is no need to “manual capture” the coupons for the rejection.

Answers to your questions:

1.       if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?   If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
As stated above: If you are the FIM issuing carrier and therefore billed for it, you have the coupons (as they were check-in on you).
Yes, in the RM with 5B you will enter the values.
And yes, you have the values (either because they are shown on the ticket facsimile, etix sales attached to the flown or on the ISR received for that coupon. In case of unpublished fares you base on the lowest published fare of the compartment flown (as per RAM).

2.       For flight coupons on FIMs this breakdown from the billed carrier does not make sense because the fare structures are so complex and have different valuation methods, i.e. published vs. unpublished fares. This assumption of a value could be a financial risk for the billing as well as the billed carrier.
As stated above,
Financial risk: this is so in case of FIM. Therefore a lot of carriers have a simplified FIM agreement
Regarding published / unpublished fare: in case of unpublished fare on the ticket, then as stated above the RAM rules state that the lowest published fare is the base for the calculation.

3.       This is why we suggest to add the coupon details in the first billing of the FIM, this is the only option we see.
We disagree. The FIM billing carrier has even less information than the FIM billed carrier (who has the coupons) and additionally would need to capture all coupons into his Rev. Acc. System – with no real benefit.

I hope this answer was helpful in addressing your question.

Best regards.


From: Lufthansa
Posted: Monday, January 17, 2011 8:36 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Ashley,
 
we are very concerned with this reply. We do not think that it is feasible to "assume" billed FIM values.
 
We know we have to follow this logic with taxes in case they are billed as a total from a non-migrated carrier. For taxes this might work because the values are predefined.
 
For flight coupons on FIMs this breakdown from the billed carrier does not make sense because the fare structures are so complex and have different valuation methods, i.e. published vs. unpublished fares. This assumption of a value could be a financial risk for the billing as well as the billed carrier.
 
This is why we suggest to add the coupon details in the first billing of the FIM, this is the only option we see.
Please reconsider this item.
Claudia

From:
Posted: Friday, January 14, 2011 2:42 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Oliver,
 
If reason code 5B is used, Coupon breakdown is mandatory. The billed amount, even though is not present in the prime billing, will have to be derived/assumed and populated in the record structure.
 
Hope this helps.
From:
Posted: Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:33 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
 
if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?
 
If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
 
Thanks for answering!
best regards
Oliver
Replied by Ashley H on 2011-02-22 09:13:00

Hi Lori,

 

When receiving the FIM as the billed carrier, you check your calculation with the one which should be shown on the scanned FIM (supporting document).

 

You will reject only the coupons that you disagree with. You should not distribute the billed amount equally – as stated before: it should be shown on the scanned and attached FIM.

Hope this helps.


From:
Posted: Friday, February 18, 2011 3:33 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
How are airlines handling the rejection of the Fim when using coupon breakdown records if the values are not the same for each underlying document of the Fim?  If we distribute the billed amount equally, it seems we could have some underbills and some overbills on the coupon breakdowns. 


From:
Posted: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:15 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Dear all,
 
We have discussed this item internally and would like to provide here a more thorough explanation regarding FIM rejections.
 

The FIM process can best be explained with an example:

·         Carrier AAA = planned operating carrier à FIM issuing carrier

·         Carrier BBB = real operating carrier à FIM receiving carrier

 

At the airport:

1.       Carrier AAA has checked-in the PAX and has the coupons
For e.g. technical reasons AAA cannot operate the flight and due to time constraints the coupons cannot be re-validated to BBB

2.       Carrier AAA issues a FIM to BBB
On the FIM all documents/cpns, Pax Name, Fare Base etc are listed
(assumption for this example: there are mainly coupons issued by AAA but also coupons of a carrier CCC on the FIM)

3.       Carrier BBB operates the flight, including PAX travelling on above FIM

Revenue Accountings of AAA and BBB:

4.       Carrier BBB has the FIM in his flight envelope.
In order to bill AAA, BBB is checking if they have a Simplified FIM agreement, Re-protection agreement, SPA or any other agreement covering FIMs between AAA and BBB

a.       If there is an agreement: Then BBB is billing AAA based on agreement

b.       If there is no agreement: then BBB is billing AAA full sector fare for the sector flown and cabin class booked

As today the calculation is hand written on the FIM.

Carrier BBB does not have the coupons, he has only the FIM. Therefore, the PAX WG decided that no coupon breakdown is needed. The calculation is visible on the FIM document, which scanned copy must be attached as supporting document.
A coupon breakdown would have meant an additional manual effort for the billing carrier.

 

Carrier BBB is billing AAA with Source Code 14 for FIM prime billing.

 

5.       Carrier AAA bills the relevant coupons to carrier CCC
and enters the issued FIM in his Rev. Acc. System
Depending on his internal processes/system carrier AAA links the coupons to the issued FIM

6.       Carrier AAA receives the FIM prime billing
… and checks if the billing is correct

In case of rejection needed:

a.       In case there is a Simplified FIM agreement (or any other agreement which does not base on the real coupon itinerary),
then RM reason 5C is used (no coupon breakdown needed).
In the reason breakdown record of the RM AAA defines the e.g. correct calculation
Supporting documents as appropriate

b.       In case of no agreement and/or the calculation is based on the coupon itinerary
The RM reason 5B is used (coupon breakdown)
And the tkt facsimile has to be attached as Supporting Document
(Note: in case of unpublished fares, the tkt facsimile would not show the real amount collected. In such a case the lowest published fare in that class is the base for the calculation).

PAX WG: the originally planned operating carrier has the coupons in his Rev. Acc. System.
When receiving the FIM, most of the systems are able to “link” the coupons with the FIM. Therefore there is no need to “manual capture” the coupons for the rejection.

Answers to your questions:

1.       if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?   If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
As stated above: If you are the FIM issuing carrier and therefore billed for it, you have the coupons (as they were check-in on you).
Yes, in the RM with 5B you will enter the values.
And yes, you have the values (either because they are shown on the ticket facsimile, etix sales attached to the flown or on the ISR received for that coupon. In case of unpublished fares you base on the lowest published fare of the compartment flown (as per RAM).

2.       For flight coupons on FIMs this breakdown from the billed carrier does not make sense because the fare structures are so complex and have different valuation methods, i.e. published vs. unpublished fares. This assumption of a value could be a financial risk for the billing as well as the billed carrier.
As stated above,
Financial risk: this is so in case of FIM. Therefore a lot of carriers have a simplified FIM agreement
Regarding published / unpublished fare: in case of unpublished fare on the ticket, then as stated above the RAM rules state that the lowest published fare is the base for the calculation.

3.       This is why we suggest to add the coupon details in the first billing of the FIM, this is the only option we see.
We disagree. The FIM billing carrier has even less information than the FIM billed carrier (who has the coupons) and additionally would need to capture all coupons into his Rev. Acc. System – with no real benefit.

I hope this answer was helpful in addressing your question.

Best regards.


From: Lufthansa
Posted: Monday, January 17, 2011 8:36 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Ashley,
 
we are very concerned with this reply. We do not think that it is feasible to "assume" billed FIM values.
 
We know we have to follow this logic with taxes in case they are billed as a total from a non-migrated carrier. For taxes this might work because the values are predefined.
 
For flight coupons on FIMs this breakdown from the billed carrier does not make sense because the fare structures are so complex and have different valuation methods, i.e. published vs. unpublished fares. This assumption of a value could be a financial risk for the billing as well as the billed carrier.
 
This is why we suggest to add the coupon details in the first billing of the FIM, this is the only option we see.
Please reconsider this item.
Claudia

From:
Posted: Friday, January 14, 2011 2:42 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Oliver,
 
If reason code 5B is used, Coupon breakdown is mandatory. The billed amount, even though is not present in the prime billing, will have to be derived/assumed and populated in the record structure.
 
Hope this helps.
From:
Posted: Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:33 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
 
if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?
 
If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
 
Thanks for answering!
best regards
Oliver
Replied by Konda R (Qantas) on 2011-02-22 17:18:40
Hi

I think you are making an unreliable assumption.  There is no requirement for Billing Airlines to show billing calculations on the scanned FIM (supporting document) for s/c 14 billings. 

We do not plan to show billing calculations on the scanned FIM (supporting document) for our s/c 14 billings.
 
From a Billed Airline perspective, we plan to handle this manually, and have audit clerks transpose billed amount calculations from scanned FIM (supporting document) to coupon breakdown billed amounts if avaliable. If not available on the scanned FIM, then default process will be to distribute the FIM billed amount equally accross all coupons in the breakdown. 
 
If this results in some underbills and some overbills on the coupon breakdowns, I don't see this as a problem as the coupon breakdown supports postive and negative values.  Expect the overall Net Reject Amount to be a postive value.

I would like to hear how other airlines plan to address this scenario.
 
Thanks
Konda/QF

From:
Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:13 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Lori,

 

When receiving the FIM as the billed carrier, you check your calculation with the one which should be shown on the scanned FIM (supporting document).

 

You will reject only the coupons that you disagree with. You should not distribute the billed amount equally – as stated before: it should be shown on the scanned and attached FIM.

Hope this helps.


From:
Posted: Friday, February 18, 2011 3:33 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
How are airlines handling the rejection of the Fim when using coupon breakdown records if the values are not the same for each underlying document of the Fim?  If we distribute the billed amount equally, it seems we could have some underbills and some overbills on the coupon breakdowns. 


From:
Posted: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:15 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Dear all,
 
We have discussed this item internally and would like to provide here a more thorough explanation regarding FIM rejections.
 

The FIM process can best be explained with an example:

·         Carrier AAA = planned operating carrier à FIM issuing carrier

·         Carrier BBB = real operating carrier à FIM receiving carrier

 

At the airport:

1.       Carrier AAA has checked-in the PAX and has the coupons
For e.g. technical reasons AAA cannot operate the flight and due to time constraints the coupons cannot be re-validated to BBB

2.       Carrier AAA issues a FIM to BBB
On the FIM all documents/cpns, Pax Name, Fare Base etc are listed
(assumption for this example: there are mainly coupons issued by AAA but also coupons of a carrier CCC on the FIM)

3.       Carrier BBB operates the flight, including PAX travelling on above FIM

Revenue Accountings of AAA and BBB:

4.       Carrier BBB has the FIM in his flight envelope.
In order to bill AAA, BBB is checking if they have a Simplified FIM agreement, Re-protection agreement, SPA or any other agreement covering FIMs between AAA and BBB

a.       If there is an agreement: Then BBB is billing AAA based on agreement

b.       If there is no agreement: then BBB is billing AAA full sector fare for the sector flown and cabin class booked

As today the calculation is hand written on the FIM.

Carrier BBB does not have the coupons, he has only the FIM. Therefore, the PAX WG decided that no coupon breakdown is needed. The calculation is visible on the FIM document, which scanned copy must be attached as supporting document.
A coupon breakdown would have meant an additional manual effort for the billing carrier.

 

Carrier BBB is billing AAA with Source Code 14 for FIM prime billing.

 

5.       Carrier AAA bills the relevant coupons to carrier CCC
and enters the issued FIM in his Rev. Acc. System
Depending on his internal processes/system carrier AAA links the coupons to the issued FIM

6.       Carrier AAA receives the FIM prime billing
… and checks if the billing is correct

In case of rejection needed:

a.       In case there is a Simplified FIM agreement (or any other agreement which does not base on the real coupon itinerary),
then RM reason 5C is used (no coupon breakdown needed).
In the reason breakdown record of the RM AAA defines the e.g. correct calculation
Supporting documents as appropriate

b.       In case of no agreement and/or the calculation is based on the coupon itinerary
The RM reason 5B is used (coupon breakdown)
And the tkt facsimile has to be attached as Supporting Document
(Note: in case of unpublished fares, the tkt facsimile would not show the real amount collected. In such a case the lowest published fare in that class is the base for the calculation).

PAX WG: the originally planned operating carrier has the coupons in his Rev. Acc. System.
When receiving the FIM, most of the systems are able to “link” the coupons with the FIM. Therefore there is no need to “manual capture” the coupons for the rejection.

Answers to your questions:

1.       if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?   If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
As stated above: If you are the FIM issuing carrier and therefore billed for it, you have the coupons (as they were check-in on you).
Yes, in the RM with 5B you will enter the values.
And yes, you have the values (either because they are shown on the ticket facsimile, etix sales attached to the flown or on the ISR received for that coupon. In case of unpublished fares you base on the lowest published fare of the compartment flown (as per RAM).

2.       For flight coupons on FIMs this breakdown from the billed carrier does not make sense because the fare structures are so complex and have different valuation methods, i.e. published vs. unpublished fares. This assumption of a value could be a financial risk for the billing as well as the billed carrier.
As stated above,
Financial risk: this is so in case of FIM. Therefore a lot of carriers have a simplified FIM agreement
Regarding published / unpublished fare: in case of unpublished fare on the ticket, then as stated above the RAM rules state that the lowest published fare is the base for the calculation.

3.       This is why we suggest to add the coupon details in the first billing of the FIM, this is the only option we see.
We disagree. The FIM billing carrier has even less information than the FIM billed carrier (who has the coupons) and additionally would need to capture all coupons into his Rev. Acc. System – with no real benefit.

I hope this answer was helpful in addressing your question.

Best regards.


From: Lufthansa
Posted: Monday, January 17, 2011 8:36 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Ashley,
 
we are very concerned with this reply. We do not think that it is feasible to "assume" billed FIM values.
 
We know we have to follow this logic with taxes in case they are billed as a total from a non-migrated carrier. For taxes this might work because the values are predefined.
 
For flight coupons on FIMs this breakdown from the billed carrier does not make sense because the fare structures are so complex and have different valuation methods, i.e. published vs. unpublished fares. This assumption of a value could be a financial risk for the billing as well as the billed carrier.
 
This is why we suggest to add the coupon details in the first billing of the FIM, this is the only option we see.
Please reconsider this item.
Claudia

From:
Posted: Friday, January 14, 2011 2:42 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Oliver,
 
If reason code 5B is used, Coupon breakdown is mandatory. The billed amount, even though is not present in the prime billing, will have to be derived/assumed and populated in the record structure.
 
Hope this helps.
From:
Posted: Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:33 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
 
if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?
 
If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
 
Thanks for answering!
best regards
Oliver
Replied by Konda R (Qantas) on 2011-02-22 17:21:34
Hi

I think you are making an unreliable assumption.  There is no requirement for Billing Airlines to show billing calculations on the scanned FIM (supporting document) for s/c 14 billings. 

We do not plan to show billing calculations on the scanned FIM (supporting document) for our s/c 14 billings.
 
From a Billed Airline perspective, we plan to handle this manually, and have audit clerks transpose billed amount calculations from scanned FIM (supporting document) to coupon breakdown billed amounts if avaliable. If not available on the scanned FIM, then default process will be to distribute the FIM billed amount equally accross all coupons in the breakdown. 
 
If this results in some underbills and some overbills on the coupon breakdowns, I don't see this as a problem as the coupon breakdown supports postive and negative values.  Expect the overall Net Reject Amount to be a postive value.

I would like to hear how other airlines plan to address this scenario.
 
Thanks
Konda/QF


From:
Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:13 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Lori,

 

When receiving the FIM as the billed carrier, you check your calculation with the one which should be shown on the scanned FIM (supporting document).

 

You will reject only the coupons that you disagree with. You should not distribute the billed amount equally – as stated before: it should be shown on the scanned and attached FIM.

Hope this helps.


From:
Posted: Friday, February 18, 2011 3:33 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
How are airlines handling the rejection of the Fim when using coupon breakdown records if the values are not the same for each underlying document of the Fim?  If we distribute the billed amount equally, it seems we could have some underbills and some overbills on the coupon breakdowns. 


From:
Posted: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:15 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Dear all,
 
We have discussed this item internally and would like to provide here a more thorough explanation regarding FIM rejections.
 

The FIM process can best be explained with an example:

·         Carrier AAA = planned operating carrier à FIM issuing carrier

·         Carrier BBB = real operating carrier à FIM receiving carrier

 

At the airport:

1.       Carrier AAA has checked-in the PAX and has the coupons
For e.g. technical reasons AAA cannot operate the flight and due to time constraints the coupons cannot be re-validated to BBB

2.       Carrier AAA issues a FIM to BBB
On the FIM all documents/cpns, Pax Name, Fare Base etc are listed
(assumption for this example: there are mainly coupons issued by AAA but also coupons of a carrier CCC on the FIM)

3.       Carrier BBB operates the flight, including PAX travelling on above FIM

Revenue Accountings of AAA and BBB:

4.       Carrier BBB has the FIM in his flight envelope.
In order to bill AAA, BBB is checking if they have a Simplified FIM agreement, Re-protection agreement, SPA or any other agreement covering FIMs between AAA and BBB

a.       If there is an agreement: Then BBB is billing AAA based on agreement

b.       If there is no agreement: then BBB is billing AAA full sector fare for the sector flown and cabin class booked

As today the calculation is hand written on the FIM.

Carrier BBB does not have the coupons, he has only the FIM. Therefore, the PAX WG decided that no coupon breakdown is needed. The calculation is visible on the FIM document, which scanned copy must be attached as supporting document.
A coupon breakdown would have meant an additional manual effort for the billing carrier.

 

Carrier BBB is billing AAA with Source Code 14 for FIM prime billing.

 

5.       Carrier AAA bills the relevant coupons to carrier CCC
and enters the issued FIM in his Rev. Acc. System
Depending on his internal processes/system carrier AAA links the coupons to the issued FIM

6.       Carrier AAA receives the FIM prime billing
… and checks if the billing is correct

In case of rejection needed:

a.       In case there is a Simplified FIM agreement (or any other agreement which does not base on the real coupon itinerary),
then RM reason 5C is used (no coupon breakdown needed).
In the reason breakdown record of the RM AAA defines the e.g. correct calculation
Supporting documents as appropriate

b.       In case of no agreement and/or the calculation is based on the coupon itinerary
The RM reason 5B is used (coupon breakdown)
And the tkt facsimile has to be attached as Supporting Document
(Note: in case of unpublished fares, the tkt facsimile would not show the real amount collected. In such a case the lowest published fare in that class is the base for the calculation).

PAX WG: the originally planned operating carrier has the coupons in his Rev. Acc. System.
When receiving the FIM, most of the systems are able to “link” the coupons with the FIM. Therefore there is no need to “manual capture” the coupons for the rejection.

Answers to your questions:

1.       if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?   If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
As stated above: If you are the FIM issuing carrier and therefore billed for it, you have the coupons (as they were check-in on you).
Yes, in the RM with 5B you will enter the values.
And yes, you have the values (either because they are shown on the ticket facsimile, etix sales attached to the flown or on the ISR received for that coupon. In case of unpublished fares you base on the lowest published fare of the compartment flown (as per RAM).

2.       For flight coupons on FIMs this breakdown from the billed carrier does not make sense because the fare structures are so complex and have different valuation methods, i.e. published vs. unpublished fares. This assumption of a value could be a financial risk for the billing as well as the billed carrier.
As stated above,
Financial risk: this is so in case of FIM. Therefore a lot of carriers have a simplified FIM agreement
Regarding published / unpublished fare: in case of unpublished fare on the ticket, then as stated above the RAM rules state that the lowest published fare is the base for the calculation.

3.       This is why we suggest to add the coupon details in the first billing of the FIM, this is the only option we see.
We disagree. The FIM billing carrier has even less information than the FIM billed carrier (who has the coupons) and additionally would need to capture all coupons into his Rev. Acc. System – with no real benefit.

I hope this answer was helpful in addressing your question.

Best regards.


From: Lufthansa
Posted: Monday, January 17, 2011 8:36 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Ashley,
 
we are very concerned with this reply. We do not think that it is feasible to "assume" billed FIM values.
 
We know we have to follow this logic with taxes in case they are billed as a total from a non-migrated carrier. For taxes this might work because the values are predefined.
 
For flight coupons on FIMs this breakdown from the billed carrier does not make sense because the fare structures are so complex and have different valuation methods, i.e. published vs. unpublished fares. This assumption of a value could be a financial risk for the billing as well as the billed carrier.
 
This is why we suggest to add the coupon details in the first billing of the FIM, this is the only option we see.
Please reconsider this item.
Claudia

From:
Posted: Friday, January 14, 2011 2:42 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Oliver,
 
If reason code 5B is used, Coupon breakdown is mandatory. The billed amount, even though is not present in the prime billing, will have to be derived/assumed and populated in the record structure.
 
Hope this helps.
From:
Posted: Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:33 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
 
if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?
 
If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
 
Thanks for answering!
best regards
Oliver
Replied by Benjamin R (Lufthansa) on 2011-02-23 05:12:11
Hi All,
 
I agree with Konda when it comes down to original billing values written on FIMs. We will certainly not enter the billing amount on outgoing FIMs as it means additional manual work which does not offer any benefit. From our experience on incoming FIMs the total billing amount is identified, if at all in the first place. However, it is never divided into e.g. different classes. So the entry is of no additional use, as it equals the IS-IDEC/XML billing amount.

When it comes down to evaluation of incoming FIMs though I believe, that single values calculated on coupon breakdown level have to be compared with the total FIM amount. The difference between the sum of the coupon breakdown prorate amounts and the billed FIM total shall be rejected.
I further believe that RAM supports this in saying that "billing must be one single amount for one single FIM".
 
I don't go that way that any airline will voluntarily create a coupon breakdown-based credit if the prorate result was higher than the amount which results from deviding the FIM billing amount by the number of pax. It would rather accept that coupon breakdown and absorb the difference.
 
This can't be in the interest of any airline. I believe that a coupon breakdown based FIM evaluation can only correctly work if coupon breakdowns are delivered at time of Original Billing. 
Thus, when billing FIMs LH suggests to ignore SFI 32 Element 15 and compare  SFI 32 Element 17, the sum of these if more than one coupon breakdown exists, with SFI 21 Element 20 instead.   
 
Thanks,
Benjamin (LH)
 
 

From:
Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 5:21 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi

I think you are making an unreliable assumption.  There is no requirement for Billing Airlines to show billing calculations on the scanned FIM (supporting document) for s/c 14 billings. 

We do not plan to show billing calculations on the scanned FIM (supporting document) for our s/c 14 billings.
 
From a Billed Airline perspective, we plan to handle this manually, and have audit clerks transpose billed amount calculations from scanned FIM (supporting document) to coupon breakdown billed amounts if avaliable. If not available on the scanned FIM, then default process will be to distribute the FIM billed amount equally accross all coupons in the breakdown. 
 
If this results in some underbills and some overbills on the coupon breakdowns, I don't see this as a problem as the coupon breakdown supports postive and negative values.  Expect the overall Net Reject Amount to be a postive value.

I would like to hear how other airlines plan to address this scenario.
 
Thanks
Konda/QF


From:
Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:13 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Lori,

 

When receiving the FIM as the billed carrier, you check your calculation with the one which should be shown on the scanned FIM (supporting document).

 

You will reject only the coupons that you disagree with. You should not distribute the billed amount equally – as stated before: it should be shown on the scanned and attached FIM.

Hope this helps.


From:
Posted: Friday, February 18, 2011 3:33 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
How are airlines handling the rejection of the Fim when using coupon breakdown records if the values are not the same for each underlying document of the Fim?  If we distribute the billed amount equally, it seems we could have some underbills and some overbills on the coupon breakdowns. 


From:
Posted: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:15 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Dear all,
 
We have discussed this item internally and would like to provide here a more thorough explanation regarding FIM rejections.
 

The FIM process can best be explained with an example:

·         Carrier AAA = planned operating carrier à FIM issuing carrier

·         Carrier BBB = real operating carrier à FIM receiving carrier

 

At the airport:

1.       Carrier AAA has checked-in the PAX and has the coupons
For e.g. technical reasons AAA cannot operate the flight and due to time constraints the coupons cannot be re-validated to BBB

2.       Carrier AAA issues a FIM to BBB
On the FIM all documents/cpns, Pax Name, Fare Base etc are listed
(assumption for this example: there are mainly coupons issued by AAA but also coupons of a carrier CCC on the FIM)

3.       Carrier BBB operates the flight, including PAX travelling on above FIM

Revenue Accountings of AAA and BBB:

4.       Carrier BBB has the FIM in his flight envelope.
In order to bill AAA, BBB is checking if they have a Simplified FIM agreement, Re-protection agreement, SPA or any other agreement covering FIMs between AAA and BBB

a.       If there is an agreement: Then BBB is billing AAA based on agreement

b.       If there is no agreement: then BBB is billing AAA full sector fare for the sector flown and cabin class booked

As today the calculation is hand written on the FIM.

Carrier BBB does not have the coupons, he has only the FIM. Therefore, the PAX WG decided that no coupon breakdown is needed. The calculation is visible on the FIM document, which scanned copy must be attached as supporting document.
A coupon breakdown would have meant an additional manual effort for the billing carrier.

 

Carrier BBB is billing AAA with Source Code 14 for FIM prime billing.

 

5.       Carrier AAA bills the relevant coupons to carrier CCC
and enters the issued FIM in his Rev. Acc. System
Depending on his internal processes/system carrier AAA links the coupons to the issued FIM

6.       Carrier AAA receives the FIM prime billing
… and checks if the billing is correct

In case of rejection needed:

a.       In case there is a Simplified FIM agreement (or any other agreement which does not base on the real coupon itinerary),
then RM reason 5C is used (no coupon breakdown needed).
In the reason breakdown record of the RM AAA defines the e.g. correct calculation
Supporting documents as appropriate

b.       In case of no agreement and/or the calculation is based on the coupon itinerary
The RM reason 5B is used (coupon breakdown)
And the tkt facsimile has to be attached as Supporting Document
(Note: in case of unpublished fares, the tkt facsimile would not show the real amount collected. In such a case the lowest published fare in that class is the base for the calculation).

PAX WG: the originally planned operating carrier has the coupons in his Rev. Acc. System.
When receiving the FIM, most of the systems are able to “link” the coupons with the FIM. Therefore there is no need to “manual capture” the coupons for the rejection.

Answers to your questions:

1.       if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?   If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
As stated above: If you are the FIM issuing carrier and therefore billed for it, you have the coupons (as they were check-in on you).
Yes, in the RM with 5B you will enter the values.
And yes, you have the values (either because they are shown on the ticket facsimile, etix sales attached to the flown or on the ISR received for that coupon. In case of unpublished fares you base on the lowest published fare of the compartment flown (as per RAM).

2.       For flight coupons on FIMs this breakdown from the billed carrier does not make sense because the fare structures are so complex and have different valuation methods, i.e. published vs. unpublished fares. This assumption of a value could be a financial risk for the billing as well as the billed carrier.
As stated above,
Financial risk: this is so in case of FIM. Therefore a lot of carriers have a simplified FIM agreement
Regarding published / unpublished fare: in case of unpublished fare on the ticket, then as stated above the RAM rules state that the lowest published fare is the base for the calculation.

3.       This is why we suggest to add the coupon details in the first billing of the FIM, this is the only option we see.
We disagree. The FIM billing carrier has even less information than the FIM billed carrier (who has the coupons) and additionally would need to capture all coupons into his Rev. Acc. System – with no real benefit.

I hope this answer was helpful in addressing your question.

Best regards.


From: Lufthansa
Posted: Monday, January 17, 2011 8:36 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Ashley,
 
we are very concerned with this reply. We do not think that it is feasible to "assume" billed FIM values.
 
We know we have to follow this logic with taxes in case they are billed as a total from a non-migrated carrier. For taxes this might work because the values are predefined.
 
For flight coupons on FIMs this breakdown from the billed carrier does not make sense because the fare structures are so complex and have different valuation methods, i.e. published vs. unpublished fares. This assumption of a value could be a financial risk for the billing as well as the billed carrier.
 
This is why we suggest to add the coupon details in the first billing of the FIM, this is the only option we see.
Please reconsider this item.
Claudia

From:
Posted: Friday, January 14, 2011 2:42 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Oliver,
 
If reason code 5B is used, Coupon breakdown is mandatory. The billed amount, even though is not present in the prime billing, will have to be derived/assumed and populated in the record structure.
 
Hope this helps.
From:
Posted: Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:33 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
 
if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?
 
If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
 
Thanks for answering!
best regards
Oliver
Replied by Wang Q on 2011-02-24 04:03:11
 

Hi!

 

There are many different voices on FIMs billing.

First of all, we agreed with Ashley that the Fim billing carrier has even less information. Moreover, Fim issuing carrier has the responsibility to provide the detail information included all ticket facsimiles, since which would not be known by billing carrier. Sometimes,Fim issuing carrier has the different information on Fim coupon breakdown(eg: coupon number) with the Fim billing carrier due to handwriting error.

However, we do believed there is no industy purpose to divided equally among all coupons or by other ways, except to meet IS-IDEC/IS-XML structure format. And the Fim billing carrier do not care this information either. They all focus on the ‘gross acceptance’ in couponbreakdown  entered by fim issuing carrier.

Therefore, we think when we raised rejection memo on fim(SC44/45/46), we entered a default value on Gross amount billed (SFI32 element15) and Gross amount difference(SFI32 element19). And ingore the cross check between SFI32 and SFI21 on the element ‘Gross amount billed’. By another words, gross amount billed and gross amount difference only should be entered into memo level(SFI21).

 
 
BRGs
 
Wang Qi/ACCA


From: Lufthansa
Posted: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 5:12 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi All,
 
I agree with Konda when it comes down to original billing values written on FIMs. We will certainly not enter the billing amount on outgoing FIMs as it means additional manual work which does not offer any benefit. From our experience on incoming FIMs the total billing amount is identified, if at all in the first place. However, it is never divided into e.g. different classes. So the entry is of no additional use, as it equals the IS-IDEC/XML billing amount.

When it comes down to evaluation of incoming FIMs though I believe, that single values calculated on coupon breakdown level have to be compared with the total FIM amount. The difference between the sum of the coupon breakdown prorate amounts and the billed FIM total shall be rejected.
I further believe that RAM supports this in saying that "billing must be one single amount for one single FIM".
 
I don't go that way that any airline will voluntarily create a coupon breakdown-based credit if the prorate result was higher than the amount which results from deviding the FIM billing amount by the number of pax. It would rather accept that coupon breakdown and absorb the difference.
 
This can't be in the interest of any airline. I believe that a coupon breakdown based FIM evaluation can only correctly work if coupon breakdowns are delivered at time of Original Billing. 
Thus, when billing FIMs LH suggests to ignore SFI 32 Element 15 and compare  SFI 32 Element 17, the sum of these if more than one coupon breakdown exists, with SFI 21 Element 20 instead.   
 
Thanks,
Benjamin (LH)
 
 

From:
Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 5:21 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi

I think you are making an unreliable assumption.  There is no requirement for Billing Airlines to show billing calculations on the scanned FIM (supporting document) for s/c 14 billings. 

We do not plan to show billing calculations on the scanned FIM (supporting document) for our s/c 14 billings.
 
From a Billed Airline perspective, we plan to handle this manually, and have audit clerks transpose billed amount calculations from scanned FIM (supporting document) to coupon breakdown billed amounts if avaliable. If not available on the scanned FIM, then default process will be to distribute the FIM billed amount equally accross all coupons in the breakdown. 
 
If this results in some underbills and some overbills on the coupon breakdowns, I don't see this as a problem as the coupon breakdown supports postive and negative values.  Expect the overall Net Reject Amount to be a postive value.

I would like to hear how other airlines plan to address this scenario.
 
Thanks
Konda/QF


From:
Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:13 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Lori,

 

When receiving the FIM as the billed carrier, you check your calculation with the one which should be shown on the scanned FIM (supporting document).

 

You will reject only the coupons that you disagree with. You should not distribute the billed amount equally – as stated before: it should be shown on the scanned and attached FIM.

Hope this helps.


From:
Posted: Friday, February 18, 2011 3:33 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
How are airlines handling the rejection of the Fim when using coupon breakdown records if the values are not the same for each underlying document of the Fim?  If we distribute the billed amount equally, it seems we could have some underbills and some overbills on the coupon breakdowns. 


From:
Posted: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:15 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Dear all,
 
We have discussed this item internally and would like to provide here a more thorough explanation regarding FIM rejections.
 

The FIM process can best be explained with an example:

·         Carrier AAA = planned operating carrier à FIM issuing carrier

·         Carrier BBB = real operating carrier à FIM receiving carrier

 

At the airport:

1.       Carrier AAA has checked-in the PAX and has the coupons
For e.g. technical reasons AAA cannot operate the flight and due to time constraints the coupons cannot be re-validated to BBB

2.       Carrier AAA issues a FIM to BBB
On the FIM all documents/cpns, Pax Name, Fare Base etc are listed
(assumption for this example: there are mainly coupons issued by AAA but also coupons of a carrier CCC on the FIM)

3.       Carrier BBB operates the flight, including PAX travelling on above FIM

Revenue Accountings of AAA and BBB:

4.       Carrier BBB has the FIM in his flight envelope.
In order to bill AAA, BBB is checking if they have a Simplified FIM agreement, Re-protection agreement, SPA or any other agreement covering FIMs between AAA and BBB

a.       If there is an agreement: Then BBB is billing AAA based on agreement

b.       If there is no agreement: then BBB is billing AAA full sector fare for the sector flown and cabin class booked

As today the calculation is hand written on the FIM.

Carrier BBB does not have the coupons, he has only the FIM. Therefore, the PAX WG decided that no coupon breakdown is needed. The calculation is visible on the FIM document, which scanned copy must be attached as supporting document.
A coupon breakdown would have meant an additional manual effort for the billing carrier.

 

Carrier BBB is billing AAA with Source Code 14 for FIM prime billing.

 

5.       Carrier AAA bills the relevant coupons to carrier CCC
and enters the issued FIM in his Rev. Acc. System
Depending on his internal processes/system carrier AAA links the coupons to the issued FIM

6.       Carrier AAA receives the FIM prime billing
… and checks if the billing is correct

In case of rejection needed:

a.       In case there is a Simplified FIM agreement (or any other agreement which does not base on the real coupon itinerary),
then RM reason 5C is used (no coupon breakdown needed).
In the reason breakdown record of the RM AAA defines the e.g. correct calculation
Supporting documents as appropriate

b.       In case of no agreement and/or the calculation is based on the coupon itinerary
The RM reason 5B is used (coupon breakdown)
And the tkt facsimile has to be attached as Supporting Document
(Note: in case of unpublished fares, the tkt facsimile would not show the real amount collected. In such a case the lowest published fare in that class is the base for the calculation).

PAX WG: the originally planned operating carrier has the coupons in his Rev. Acc. System.
When receiving the FIM, most of the systems are able to “link” the coupons with the FIM. Therefore there is no need to “manual capture” the coupons for the rejection.

Answers to your questions:

1.       if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?   If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
As stated above: If you are the FIM issuing carrier and therefore billed for it, you have the coupons (as they were check-in on you).
Yes, in the RM with 5B you will enter the values.
And yes, you have the values (either because they are shown on the ticket facsimile, etix sales attached to the flown or on the ISR received for that coupon. In case of unpublished fares you base on the lowest published fare of the compartment flown (as per RAM).

2.       For flight coupons on FIMs this breakdown from the billed carrier does not make sense because the fare structures are so complex and have different valuation methods, i.e. published vs. unpublished fares. This assumption of a value could be a financial risk for the billing as well as the billed carrier.
As stated above,
Financial risk: this is so in case of FIM. Therefore a lot of carriers have a simplified FIM agreement
Regarding published / unpublished fare: in case of unpublished fare on the ticket, then as stated above the RAM rules state that the lowest published fare is the base for the calculation.

3.       This is why we suggest to add the coupon details in the first billing of the FIM, this is the only option we see.
We disagree. The FIM billing carrier has even less information than the FIM billed carrier (who has the coupons) and additionally would need to capture all coupons into his Rev. Acc. System – with no real benefit.

I hope this answer was helpful in addressing your question.

Best regards.


From: Lufthansa
Posted: Monday, January 17, 2011 8:36 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Ashley,
 
we are very concerned with this reply. We do not think that it is feasible to "assume" billed FIM values.
 
We know we have to follow this logic with taxes in case they are billed as a total from a non-migrated carrier. For taxes this might work because the values are predefined.
 
For flight coupons on FIMs this breakdown from the billed carrier does not make sense because the fare structures are so complex and have different valuation methods, i.e. published vs. unpublished fares. This assumption of a value could be a financial risk for the billing as well as the billed carrier.
 
This is why we suggest to add the coupon details in the first billing of the FIM, this is the only option we see.
Please reconsider this item.
Claudia

From:
Posted: Friday, January 14, 2011 2:42 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Oliver,
 
If reason code 5B is used, Coupon breakdown is mandatory. The billed amount, even though is not present in the prime billing, will have to be derived/assumed and populated in the record structure.
 
Hope this helps.
From:
Posted: Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:33 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
 
if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?
 
If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
 
Thanks for answering!
best regards
Oliver
Replied by Eun L (Korean Air) on 2011-02-28 03:23:06

Hello All~!

 

 

According to SIS RAM A2.2.6.1.1 as mentioned above by Benjamin, The billing must be one single amount for one single FIM.

So, I think that there is no problem if we only input the FIM rejection amount to the SFI 21 and dont enter the ticket prorated amount to the SFI 32.

 

Im suggesting below.

 

1.      FIM Original billings (SC 14) :

- No coupon break down needed.

- FIM scanned copy attached

2.      FIM Rejection billings (SC44/45/46)

-         SFI 21 (PAX rejection Memo Record) should be fill in element 20 (Total Gross amount Billed) , element 22 (Total Gross amount Accepted) and element 24 (Total Gross Difference)

-         SFI 32 (RM coupon Break down Record) should be fill in element 11 (Ticket number) , however , it doesnt have to fill in element 15 (Gross amount Billed), element 17 (Gross Amount Accepted) and element 19 (Gross amount accepted)

 

   Thank you

 

   Lim (KE)

Replied by Antoinette N (Air New Zealand) on 2011-02-28 16:00:45
Hi Konda
You do have a point. The decision to have a coupon break down record for 5B was taken considering that each coupon shown on the FIM would require a separate calculation. That calculated value would then be linked to the billed value as hand written onto the FIM. The topic was discussed extensivley in the Pax WG and also the RAWG at that time. I now realise that for some carriers it is impossible to hand write that calculation onto the FIM before it is billed out. You could achieve this by uploading another page showing the calculation, e.g. 5 Pax times USD 150.00 being full sector value for XXX-YYY = $ 750.00
Maybe this problem should be re-discussed.


From:
Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 5:21 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi

I think you are making an unreliable assumption.  There is no requirement for Billing Airlines to show billing calculations on the scanned FIM (supporting document) for s/c 14 billings. 

We do not plan to show billing calculations on the scanned FIM (supporting document) for our s/c 14 billings.
 
From a Billed Airline perspective, we plan to handle this manually, and have audit clerks transpose billed amount calculations from scanned FIM (supporting document) to coupon breakdown billed amounts if avaliable. If not available on the scanned FIM, then default process will be to distribute the FIM billed amount equally accross all coupons in the breakdown. 
 
If this results in some underbills and some overbills on the coupon breakdowns, I don't see this as a problem as the coupon breakdown supports postive and negative values.  Expect the overall Net Reject Amount to be a postive value.

I would like to hear how other airlines plan to address this scenario.
 
Thanks
Konda/QF


From:
Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:13 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Lori,

 

When receiving the FIM as the billed carrier, you check your calculation with the one which should be shown on the scanned FIM (supporting document).

 

You will reject only the coupons that you disagree with. You should not distribute the billed amount equally – as stated before: it should be shown on the scanned and attached FIM.

Hope this helps.


From:
Posted: Friday, February 18, 2011 3:33 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
How are airlines handling the rejection of the Fim when using coupon breakdown records if the values are not the same for each underlying document of the Fim?  If we distribute the billed amount equally, it seems we could have some underbills and some overbills on the coupon breakdowns. 


From:
Posted: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:15 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Dear all,
 
We have discussed this item internally and would like to provide here a more thorough explanation regarding FIM rejections.
 

The FIM process can best be explained with an example:

·         Carrier AAA = planned operating carrier à FIM issuing carrier

·         Carrier BBB = real operating carrier à FIM receiving carrier

 

At the airport:

1.       Carrier AAA has checked-in the PAX and has the coupons
For e.g. technical reasons AAA cannot operate the flight and due to time constraints the coupons cannot be re-validated to BBB

2.       Carrier AAA issues a FIM to BBB
On the FIM all documents/cpns, Pax Name, Fare Base etc are listed
(assumption for this example: there are mainly coupons issued by AAA but also coupons of a carrier CCC on the FIM)

3.       Carrier BBB operates the flight, including PAX travelling on above FIM

Revenue Accountings of AAA and BBB:

4.       Carrier BBB has the FIM in his flight envelope.
In order to bill AAA, BBB is checking if they have a Simplified FIM agreement, Re-protection agreement, SPA or any other agreement covering FIMs between AAA and BBB

a.       If there is an agreement: Then BBB is billing AAA based on agreement

b.       If there is no agreement: then BBB is billing AAA full sector fare for the sector flown and cabin class booked

As today the calculation is hand written on the FIM.

Carrier BBB does not have the coupons, he has only the FIM. Therefore, the PAX WG decided that no coupon breakdown is needed. The calculation is visible on the FIM document, which scanned copy must be attached as supporting document.
A coupon breakdown would have meant an additional manual effort for the billing carrier.

 

Carrier BBB is billing AAA with Source Code 14 for FIM prime billing.

 

5.       Carrier AAA bills the relevant coupons to carrier CCC
and enters the issued FIM in his Rev. Acc. System
Depending on his internal processes/system carrier AAA links the coupons to the issued FIM

6.       Carrier AAA receives the FIM prime billing
… and checks if the billing is correct

In case of rejection needed:

a.       In case there is a Simplified FIM agreement (or any other agreement which does not base on the real coupon itinerary),
then RM reason 5C is used (no coupon breakdown needed).
In the reason breakdown record of the RM AAA defines the e.g. correct calculation
Supporting documents as appropriate

b.       In case of no agreement and/or the calculation is based on the coupon itinerary
The RM reason 5B is used (coupon breakdown)
And the tkt facsimile has to be attached as Supporting Document
(Note: in case of unpublished fares, the tkt facsimile would not show the real amount collected. In such a case the lowest published fare in that class is the base for the calculation).

PAX WG: the originally planned operating carrier has the coupons in his Rev. Acc. System.
When receiving the FIM, most of the systems are able to “link” the coupons with the FIM. Therefore there is no need to “manual capture” the coupons for the rejection.

Answers to your questions:

1.       if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?   If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
As stated above: If you are the FIM issuing carrier and therefore billed for it, you have the coupons (as they were check-in on you).
Yes, in the RM with 5B you will enter the values.
And yes, you have the values (either because they are shown on the ticket facsimile, etix sales attached to the flown or on the ISR received for that coupon. In case of unpublished fares you base on the lowest published fare of the compartment flown (as per RAM).

2.       For flight coupons on FIMs this breakdown from the billed carrier does not make sense because the fare structures are so complex and have different valuation methods, i.e. published vs. unpublished fares. This assumption of a value could be a financial risk for the billing as well as the billed carrier.
As stated above,
Financial risk: this is so in case of FIM. Therefore a lot of carriers have a simplified FIM agreement
Regarding published / unpublished fare: in case of unpublished fare on the ticket, then as stated above the RAM rules state that the lowest published fare is the base for the calculation.

3.       This is why we suggest to add the coupon details in the first billing of the FIM, this is the only option we see.
We disagree. The FIM billing carrier has even less information than the FIM billed carrier (who has the coupons) and additionally would need to capture all coupons into his Rev. Acc. System – with no real benefit.

I hope this answer was helpful in addressing your question.

Best regards.


From: Lufthansa
Posted: Monday, January 17, 2011 8:36 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Ashley,
 
we are very concerned with this reply. We do not think that it is feasible to "assume" billed FIM values.
 
We know we have to follow this logic with taxes in case they are billed as a total from a non-migrated carrier. For taxes this might work because the values are predefined.
 
For flight coupons on FIMs this breakdown from the billed carrier does not make sense because the fare structures are so complex and have different valuation methods, i.e. published vs. unpublished fares. This assumption of a value could be a financial risk for the billing as well as the billed carrier.
 
This is why we suggest to add the coupon details in the first billing of the FIM, this is the only option we see.
Please reconsider this item.
Claudia

From:
Posted: Friday, January 14, 2011 2:42 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Oliver,
 
If reason code 5B is used, Coupon breakdown is mandatory. The billed amount, even though is not present in the prime billing, will have to be derived/assumed and populated in the record structure.
 
Hope this helps.
From:
Posted: Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:33 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
 
if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?
 
If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
 
Thanks for answering!
best regards
Oliver
Replied by Lori L (Delta Air Lines) on 2011-02-28 17:14:33
I feel that this should be discussed again and advise on a solution that will be the same for all carriers.
Thx,
Lori


 

From:
Posted: Monday, February 28, 2011 4:00 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Konda
You do have a point. The decision to have a coupon break down record for 5B was taken considering that each coupon shown on the FIM would require a separate calculation. That calculated value would then be linked to the billed value as hand written onto the FIM. I now realise that for some carriers it is impossible to hand write that calculation onto the FIM before it is billed out. You could achieve this by uploading another page showing the calculation, e.g. 5 Pax times USD 150.00 being full sector value for XXX-YYY = $ 750.00
Maybe this problem should be re-discussed.


From:
Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 5:21 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi

I think you are making an unreliable assumption.  There is no requirement for Billing Airlines to show billing calculations on the scanned FIM (supporting document) for s/c 14 billings. 

We do not plan to show billing calculations on the scanned FIM (supporting document) for our s/c 14 billings.
 
From a Billed Airline perspective, we plan to handle this manually, and have audit clerks transpose billed amount calculations from scanned FIM (supporting document) to coupon breakdown billed amounts if avaliable. If not available on the scanned FIM, then default process will be to distribute the FIM billed amount equally accross all coupons in the breakdown. 
 
If this results in some underbills and some overbills on the coupon breakdowns, I don't see this as a problem as the coupon breakdown supports postive and negative values.  Expect the overall Net Reject Amount to be a postive value.

I would like to hear how other airlines plan to address this scenario.
 
Thanks
Konda/QF


From:
Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:13 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Lori,

 

When receiving the FIM as the billed carrier, you check your calculation with the one which should be shown on the scanned FIM (supporting document).

 

You will reject only the coupons that you disagree with. You should not distribute the billed amount equally – as stated before: it should be shown on the scanned and attached FIM.

Hope this helps.


From:
Posted: Friday, February 18, 2011 3:33 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
How are airlines handling the rejection of the Fim when using coupon breakdown records if the values are not the same for each underlying document of the Fim?  If we distribute the billed amount equally, it seems we could have some underbills and some overbills on the coupon breakdowns. 


From:
Posted: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:15 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Dear all,
 
We have discussed this item internally and would like to provide here a more thorough explanation regarding FIM rejections.
 

The FIM process can best be explained with an example:

·         Carrier AAA = planned operating carrier à FIM issuing carrier

·         Carrier BBB = real operating carrier à FIM receiving carrier

 

At the airport:

1.       Carrier AAA has checked-in the PAX and has the coupons
For e.g. technical reasons AAA cannot operate the flight and due to time constraints the coupons cannot be re-validated to BBB

2.       Carrier AAA issues a FIM to BBB
On the FIM all documents/cpns, Pax Name, Fare Base etc are listed
(assumption for this example: there are mainly coupons issued by AAA but also coupons of a carrier CCC on the FIM)

3.       Carrier BBB operates the flight, including PAX travelling on above FIM

Revenue Accountings of AAA and BBB:

4.       Carrier BBB has the FIM in his flight envelope.
In order to bill AAA, BBB is checking if they have a Simplified FIM agreement, Re-protection agreement, SPA or any other agreement covering FIMs between AAA and BBB

a.       If there is an agreement: Then BBB is billing AAA based on agreement

b.       If there is no agreement: then BBB is billing AAA full sector fare for the sector flown and cabin class booked

As today the calculation is hand written on the FIM.

Carrier BBB does not have the coupons, he has only the FIM. Therefore, the PAX WG decided that no coupon breakdown is needed. The calculation is visible on the FIM document, which scanned copy must be attached as supporting document.
A coupon breakdown would have meant an additional manual effort for the billing carrier.

 

Carrier BBB is billing AAA with Source Code 14 for FIM prime billing.

 

5.       Carrier AAA bills the relevant coupons to carrier CCC
and enters the issued FIM in his Rev. Acc. System
Depending on his internal processes/system carrier AAA links the coupons to the issued FIM

6.       Carrier AAA receives the FIM prime billing
… and checks if the billing is correct

In case of rejection needed:

a.       In case there is a Simplified FIM agreement (or any other agreement which does not base on the real coupon itinerary),
then RM reason 5C is used (no coupon breakdown needed).
In the reason breakdown record of the RM AAA defines the e.g. correct calculation
Supporting documents as appropriate

b.       In case of no agreement and/or the calculation is based on the coupon itinerary
The RM reason 5B is used (coupon breakdown)
And the tkt facsimile has to be attached as Supporting Document
(Note: in case of unpublished fares, the tkt facsimile would not show the real amount collected. In such a case the lowest published fare in that class is the base for the calculation).

PAX WG: the originally planned operating carrier has the coupons in his Rev. Acc. System.
When receiving the FIM, most of the systems are able to “link” the coupons with the FIM. Therefore there is no need to “manual capture” the coupons for the rejection.

Answers to your questions:

1.       if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?   If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
As stated above: If you are the FIM issuing carrier and therefore billed for it, you have the coupons (as they were check-in on you).
Yes, in the RM with 5B you will enter the values.
And yes, you have the values (either because they are shown on the ticket facsimile, etix sales attached to the flown or on the ISR received for that coupon. In case of unpublished fares you base on the lowest published fare of the compartment flown (as per RAM).

2.       For flight coupons on FIMs this breakdown from the billed carrier does not make sense because the fare structures are so complex and have different valuation methods, i.e. published vs. unpublished fares. This assumption of a value could be a financial risk for the billing as well as the billed carrier.
As stated above,
Financial risk: this is so in case of FIM. Therefore a lot of carriers have a simplified FIM agreement
Regarding published / unpublished fare: in case of unpublished fare on the ticket, then as stated above the RAM rules state that the lowest published fare is the base for the calculation.

3.       This is why we suggest to add the coupon details in the first billing of the FIM, this is the only option we see.
We disagree. The FIM billing carrier has even less information than the FIM billed carrier (who has the coupons) and additionally would need to capture all coupons into his Rev. Acc. System – with no real benefit.

I hope this answer was helpful in addressing your question.

Best regards.


From: Lufthansa
Posted: Monday, January 17, 2011 8:36 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Ashley,
 
we are very concerned with this reply. We do not think that it is feasible to "assume" billed FIM values.
 
We know we have to follow this logic with taxes in case they are billed as a total from a non-migrated carrier. For taxes this might work because the values are predefined.
 
For flight coupons on FIMs this breakdown from the billed carrier does not make sense because the fare structures are so complex and have different valuation methods, i.e. published vs. unpublished fares. This assumption of a value could be a financial risk for the billing as well as the billed carrier.
 
This is why we suggest to add the coupon details in the first billing of the FIM, this is the only option we see.
Please reconsider this item.
Claudia

From:
Posted: Friday, January 14, 2011 2:42 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Oliver,
 
If reason code 5B is used, Coupon breakdown is mandatory. The billed amount, even though is not present in the prime billing, will have to be derived/assumed and populated in the record structure.
 
Hope this helps.
From:
Posted: Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:33 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
 
if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?
 
If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
 
Thanks for answering!
best regards
Oliver
Replied by Lori L (Delta Air Lines) on 2011-02-28 17:15:20


 

From:
Posted: Monday, February 28, 2011 4:00 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Konda
You do have a point. The decision to have a coupon break down record for 5B was taken considering that each coupon shown on the FIM would require a separate calculation. That calculated value would then be linked to the billed value as hand written onto the FIM. I now realise that for some carriers it is impossible to hand write that calculation onto the FIM before it is billed out. You could achieve this by uploading another page showing the calculation, e.g. 5 Pax times USD 150.00 being full sector value for XXX-YYY = $ 750.00
Maybe this problem should be re-discussed.


From:
Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 5:21 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi

I think you are making an unreliable assumption.  There is no requirement for Billing Airlines to show billing calculations on the scanned FIM (supporting document) for s/c 14 billings. 

We do not plan to show billing calculations on the scanned FIM (supporting document) for our s/c 14 billings.
 
From a Billed Airline perspective, we plan to handle this manually, and have audit clerks transpose billed amount calculations from scanned FIM (supporting document) to coupon breakdown billed amounts if avaliable. If not available on the scanned FIM, then default process will be to distribute the FIM billed amount equally accross all coupons in the breakdown. 
 
If this results in some underbills and some overbills on the coupon breakdowns, I don't see this as a problem as the coupon breakdown supports postive and negative values.  Expect the overall Net Reject Amount to be a postive value.

I would like to hear how other airlines plan to address this scenario.
 
Thanks
Konda/QF


From:
Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 9:13 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Lori,

 

When receiving the FIM as the billed carrier, you check your calculation with the one which should be shown on the scanned FIM (supporting document).

 

You will reject only the coupons that you disagree with. You should not distribute the billed amount equally – as stated before: it should be shown on the scanned and attached FIM.

Hope this helps.


From:
Posted: Friday, February 18, 2011 3:33 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
How are airlines handling the rejection of the Fim when using coupon breakdown records if the values are not the same for each underlying document of the Fim?  If we distribute the billed amount equally, it seems we could have some underbills and some overbills on the coupon breakdowns. 


From:
Posted: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:15 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Dear all,
 
We have discussed this item internally and would like to provide here a more thorough explanation regarding FIM rejections.
 

The FIM process can best be explained with an example:

·         Carrier AAA = planned operating carrier à FIM issuing carrier

·         Carrier BBB = real operating carrier à FIM receiving carrier

 

At the airport:

1.       Carrier AAA has checked-in the PAX and has the coupons
For e.g. technical reasons AAA cannot operate the flight and due to time constraints the coupons cannot be re-validated to BBB

2.       Carrier AAA issues a FIM to BBB
On the FIM all documents/cpns, Pax Name, Fare Base etc are listed
(assumption for this example: there are mainly coupons issued by AAA but also coupons of a carrier CCC on the FIM)

3.       Carrier BBB operates the flight, including PAX travelling on above FIM

Revenue Accountings of AAA and BBB:

4.       Carrier BBB has the FIM in his flight envelope.
In order to bill AAA, BBB is checking if they have a Simplified FIM agreement, Re-protection agreement, SPA or any other agreement covering FIMs between AAA and BBB

a.       If there is an agreement: Then BBB is billing AAA based on agreement

b.       If there is no agreement: then BBB is billing AAA full sector fare for the sector flown and cabin class booked

As today the calculation is hand written on the FIM.

Carrier BBB does not have the coupons, he has only the FIM. Therefore, the PAX WG decided that no coupon breakdown is needed. The calculation is visible on the FIM document, which scanned copy must be attached as supporting document.
A coupon breakdown would have meant an additional manual effort for the billing carrier.

 

Carrier BBB is billing AAA with Source Code 14 for FIM prime billing.

 

5.       Carrier AAA bills the relevant coupons to carrier CCC
and enters the issued FIM in his Rev. Acc. System
Depending on his internal processes/system carrier AAA links the coupons to the issued FIM

6.       Carrier AAA receives the FIM prime billing
… and checks if the billing is correct

In case of rejection needed:

a.       In case there is a Simplified FIM agreement (or any other agreement which does not base on the real coupon itinerary),
then RM reason 5C is used (no coupon breakdown needed).
In the reason breakdown record of the RM AAA defines the e.g. correct calculation
Supporting documents as appropriate

b.       In case of no agreement and/or the calculation is based on the coupon itinerary
The RM reason 5B is used (coupon breakdown)
And the tkt facsimile has to be attached as Supporting Document
(Note: in case of unpublished fares, the tkt facsimile would not show the real amount collected. In such a case the lowest published fare in that class is the base for the calculation).

PAX WG: the originally planned operating carrier has the coupons in his Rev. Acc. System.
When receiving the FIM, most of the systems are able to “link” the coupons with the FIM. Therefore there is no need to “manual capture” the coupons for the rejection.

Answers to your questions:

1.       if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?   If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
As stated above: If you are the FIM issuing carrier and therefore billed for it, you have the coupons (as they were check-in on you).
Yes, in the RM with 5B you will enter the values.
And yes, you have the values (either because they are shown on the ticket facsimile, etix sales attached to the flown or on the ISR received for that coupon. In case of unpublished fares you base on the lowest published fare of the compartment flown (as per RAM).

2.       For flight coupons on FIMs this breakdown from the billed carrier does not make sense because the fare structures are so complex and have different valuation methods, i.e. published vs. unpublished fares. This assumption of a value could be a financial risk for the billing as well as the billed carrier.
As stated above,
Financial risk: this is so in case of FIM. Therefore a lot of carriers have a simplified FIM agreement
Regarding published / unpublished fare: in case of unpublished fare on the ticket, then as stated above the RAM rules state that the lowest published fare is the base for the calculation.

3.       This is why we suggest to add the coupon details in the first billing of the FIM, this is the only option we see.
We disagree. The FIM billing carrier has even less information than the FIM billed carrier (who has the coupons) and additionally would need to capture all coupons into his Rev. Acc. System – with no real benefit.

I hope this answer was helpful in addressing your question.

Best regards.


From: Lufthansa
Posted: Monday, January 17, 2011 8:36 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Ashley,
 
we are very concerned with this reply. We do not think that it is feasible to "assume" billed FIM values.
 
We know we have to follow this logic with taxes in case they are billed as a total from a non-migrated carrier. For taxes this might work because the values are predefined.
 
For flight coupons on FIMs this breakdown from the billed carrier does not make sense because the fare structures are so complex and have different valuation methods, i.e. published vs. unpublished fares. This assumption of a value could be a financial risk for the billing as well as the billed carrier.
 
This is why we suggest to add the coupon details in the first billing of the FIM, this is the only option we see.
Please reconsider this item.
Claudia

From:
Posted: Friday, January 14, 2011 2:42 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hi Oliver,
 
If reason code 5B is used, Coupon breakdown is mandatory. The billed amount, even though is not present in the prime billing, will have to be derived/assumed and populated in the record structure.
 
Hope this helps.
From:
Posted: Thursday, January 13, 2011 6:33 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
 
if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?
 
If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
 
Thanks for answering!
best regards
Oliver
Replied by Eun L (Korean Air) on 2011-03-01 21:13:41

Dear All

 
Let me ask you one more question.
 
If the SIS regulation maintains that coupon breakdown is needed about the rejection reason code 5B, how can I work below cases? Which amount do I have to put in the coupon breakdown record?
 
[For Examples]
 
Ticket Details
Cpn Ticket No. Portion Prorated Amount
2 180 1234 567 890 NYC ATL 210
3 180 1234 567 890 ATL BOG 470
4 180 1234 567 890 BOG LIM 320
 
FIM Details (FIM issuing Carr: AA)
Cpn FIM No. Received Carr Rerouted Portion Prorated Amount
1 180 4501 123 456 BB NYC LAX 400
2 180 4501 123 456 CC LAX LIM 600
 

1. Carrier AA received the FIM # 01 180 4501 123 456 from Carrier BB with the amount USD 1500

 

2. Carrier AA not accepted the billed amount and rejects to Carrier BB with the difference amount USD 1100

 

In case of SFI 21, the carrier AA fills in

-         FIM number : # 01 180 4501 123 456 (elements 18,19)

-         Total Gross amount Billed : USD 1500 (elements 20)

-         Total Gross amount Accepted : USD 400 (elements 22)

-         Total Gross difference : USD 1100 (elements 24)

   

   In case of SFI 32, the carrier AA fills in

-         ticket number breakdown : #2 # 3 #4  180 1234 567 890 (elements 10,11)

   However, what amount should be fill in the elements 

   15, 17 and 19 ?

   I really confused that how can I divide the coupon value?

 

Thank you

 

Lim(KE)

 
 
Replied by Lori L (Delta Air Lines) on 2011-03-24 11:08:19
Hello,
We really need a resolution on the FIM process.  Please advise as soon as possible.
Thanks,
Lori - DL


From:
Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 9:19 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Dear All

 
Let me ask you one more question.
 
If the SIS regulation maintains that coupon breakdown is needed about the rejection reason code 5B, how can I work below cases? Which amount do I have to put in the coupon breakdown record?
 
[For Examples]
 
Ticket Details
Cpn Ticket No. Portion Prorated Amount
2 180 1234 567 890 NYC ATL 210
3 180 1234 567 890 ATL BOG 470
4 180 1234 567 890 BOG LIM 320
 
FIM Details (FIM issuing Carr: AA)
Cpn FIM No. Received Carr Rerouted Portion Prorated Amount
1 180 4501 123 456 BB NYC LAX 400
2 180 4501 123 456 CC LAX LIM 600
 

1. Carrier AA received the FIM # 01 180 4501 123 456 from Carrier BB with the amount USD 1500

 

2. Carrier AA not accepted the billed amount and rejects to Carrier BB with the difference amount USD 1100

 

In case of SFI 21, the carrier AA fills in

-         FIM number : # 01 180 4501 123 456 (elements 18,19)

-         Total Gross amount Billed : USD 1500 (elements 20)

-         Total Gross amount Accepted : USD 400 (elements 22)

-         Total Gross difference : USD 1100 (elements 24)

   

   In case of SFI 32, the carrier AA fills in

-         ticket number breakdown : #2 # 3 #4  180 1234 567 890 (elements 10,11)

   However, what amount should be fill in the elements 

   15, 17 and 19 ?

   I really confused that how can I divide the coupon value?

 

Thank you

 

Lim(KE)

 
 
Replied by Lori L (Delta Air Lines) on 2011-03-24 11:08:25
Hello,
We really need a resolution on the FIM process.  Please advise as soon as possible.
Thanks,
Lori - DL


From:
Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 9:19 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

Dear All

 
Let me ask you one more question.
 
If the SIS regulation maintains that coupon breakdown is needed about the rejection reason code 5B, how can I work below cases? Which amount do I have to put in the coupon breakdown record?
 
[For Examples]
 
Ticket Details
Cpn Ticket No. Portion Prorated Amount
2 180 1234 567 890 NYC ATL 210
3 180 1234 567 890 ATL BOG 470
4 180 1234 567 890 BOG LIM 320
 
FIM Details (FIM issuing Carr: AA)
Cpn FIM No. Received Carr Rerouted Portion Prorated Amount
1 180 4501 123 456 BB NYC LAX 400
2 180 4501 123 456 CC LAX LIM 600
 

1. Carrier AA received the FIM # 01 180 4501 123 456 from Carrier BB with the amount USD 1500

 

2. Carrier AA not accepted the billed amount and rejects to Carrier BB with the difference amount USD 1100

 

In case of SFI 21, the carrier AA fills in

-         FIM number : # 01 180 4501 123 456 (elements 18,19)

-         Total Gross amount Billed : USD 1500 (elements 20)

-         Total Gross amount Accepted : USD 400 (elements 22)

-         Total Gross difference : USD 1100 (elements 24)

   

   In case of SFI 32, the carrier AA fills in

-         ticket number breakdown : #2 # 3 #4  180 1234 567 890 (elements 10,11)

   However, what amount should be fill in the elements 

   15, 17 and 19 ?

   I really confused that how can I divide the coupon value?

 

Thank you

 

Lim(KE)

 
 
Replied by Matthew H on 2011-04-13 08:09:50
Just to update the carriers following this thread - a subset of the working group carriers have been looking at this problem and we expect a new ISPG release from IATA very soon which will contain a solution.
 
Matt (BA)
Replied by Lori L (Delta Air Lines) on 2011-04-13 09:29:36
Could we put that the FIM image is mandatory as a supporting document for FIM Prime billings in the next ISPG release?
Thanks,
Lori


From:
Posted: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 12:12 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

I stand corrected on my last post! Whilst ISPG para 9.3 does not list an image of a FIM as a mandatory supporting document, the RAM 2011 A2 (part2) para 2.6.1.2 requires the FIM image in support of a prime bill. Apologies.
 
Matt
BA






One Part of IATA's response below is not correct (quote:The calculation is visible on the FIM document, which scanned copy must be attached as supporting document)
Carrier BBB does NOT need to send a scan of the uplifted FIM as a supporting document in prime bill. The ISPG is clear that the billing of uplifted documents, coupons and FIMS does not need to be supported by the original document or by a facsimilie.
 
We would suggest the billed carrier (AAA) divides the total billed value of the FIM by the number of coupons listed on the FIM, and use this value as the "billed value" in the coupon breakdown of it's 1st stage rejection.
 
Matt Holden
BA
 

From:
Posted: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:43 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,
 
if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?
 
If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.
 
Thanks for answering!
best regards
Oliver
Replied by Ashley H on 2011-04-15 11:02:46

Dear Lori,

 

This has been discussed and no, we will not add this in the ISPG because it is a RAM rule.

There are many RAM rules that are not mentioned in the ISPG (and will not be mentioned). Additionally, SIS cannot check that the FIM was attached as a supporting document – it could be also an empty paper.

 

Kind regards

 

From: LIEN Lori [mailto:lori.lien@delta.com]
Posted At: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:30 AM
Posted To: SIS Forums - Record Structures
Conversation: FIM rejections
Subject: FIM rejections

 

Could we put that the FIM image is mandatory as a supporting document for FIM Prime billings in the next ISPG release?

Thanks,

Lori


From:
Posted: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 12:12 PM
Subject: FIM rejections

I stand corrected on my last post! Whilst ISPG para 9.3 does not list an image of a FIM as a mandatory supporting document, the RAM 2011 A2 (part2) para 2.6.1.2 requires the FIM image in support of a prime bill. Apologies.

 

Matt

BA





One Part of IATA's response below is not correct (quote:The calculation is visible on the FIM document, which scanned copy must be attached as supporting document)
Carrier BBB does NOT need to send a scan of the uplifted FIM as a supporting document in prime bill. The ISPG is clear that the billing of uplifted documents, coupons and FIMS does not need to be supported by the original document or by a facsimilie.

 

We would suggest the billed carrier (AAA) divides the total billed value of the FIM by the number of coupons listed on the FIM, and use this value as the "billed value" in the coupon breakdown of it's 1st stage rejection.

 

Matt Holden

BA
 


From:
Posted: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:43 AM
Subject: FIM rejections

Hello,

 

if we have a FIM rejection with reason code 5B a coupon break down is mandatory. Do I need to publish values in this coupon break down?

 

If yes, where do I get the values for all billed columns? In prime billing I don't have a break down on coupon level for SC 14.

 

Thanks for answering!

best regards

Oliver

Replied by Ashley H on 2011-04-27 10:26:25

Dear all,

 

Please find below more details regarding rejection of a FIM and an enclosed example.

 

*********************

 

In case of FIM prime billings, the FIM Receiving carrier (the carrier who flew the FIM passengers) is expected to bill the FIM without providing coupon breakdown information in the IS Format Invoice. The scanned image of the FIM needs to be attached to the FIM Prime Billing. Thus the total value of the FIM is billed in the Invoice which might be value billed for multiple coupons (or passengers) flown in one FIM.

 

When this FIM billing is received by the FIM Issuing carrier, the carrier will verify the billing to see if the billed value is correct. If there is a bi-lateral FIM agreement between the two carriers and if there is a discrepancy in the billed amount, the FIM Issuing carrier will raise a Rejection Memo stating Reason Code as “5C” (FIM Settlement based on bilateral agreement) and reject the difference amount without providing any coupon breakdown.

 

For e.g.:

 

Prime Billing:

Total FIM Amount Billed = USD 1500

(5 Pax, Each billed for USD 300 as per FIM agreement)

 

Rejection Stage 1:

Reason Code 5C

 

Billed Amount USD 1500

Accepted Amount USD 1350

Difference USD 150

 

Reason Remarks:

Of the 5 Passengers on the FIM, 4 Passenger are adults and 1 child (Ticket no 4401001030 cpn 2). Hence 4 X USD 300 + 1 X USD 150 = USD 1350.

 

In case the billing was not based on any FIM agreement, the FIM Issuing airline will value each coupon associated with the FIM to arrive at the Accepted value for the FIM. In this scenario, if the FIM Issuing airline needs to raise a Rejection Memo, it will have to state the Reason Code as “5B” (FIM Rejection / Rebills), which mandates coupon breakdown information. Since the original FIM billing did not include coupon breakdown information, the FIM Issuing airline might not be in a position to derive what should be the billed value for each coupon of the FIM. In such situations the Rejections can be raised as per the example stated below:

 

Prime Billing:

Total FIM Amount Billed = USD 1500

 

5 coupons linked to the FIM. No breakdown amount information provided in the scanned FIM image uploaded.

 

Rejection Stage 1:

Assuming the 5 coupons are valued as follows:

Coupon 1: USD 200

Coupon 2: USD 100

Coupon 3:  USD 50

Coupon 4:  USD 50Coupon 5:  USD 100

 

The Rejection Memo Coupon Breakdown record can be populated as follows:

 

Billed

Accepted

Difference

Coupon 1

1,500

200

1,300

Coupon 2

0

100

-100

Coupon 3

0

50

-50

Coupon 4

0

50

-50

Coupon 5

0

100

-100

 

Rejection Memo Header level amounts:

 

Billed

Accepted

Difference

 

1,500

500

1,000

 

Rejection Stage 2:

Assuming there is some disagreement with the billed value of coupon 1 and coupon 5, the Second stage rejection can be generated as shown below:

 

The Rejection Memo Coupon Breakdown record can be populated as follows:

 

Billed

Accepted

Difference

Coupon 1

200

250

50

Coupon 2

100

100

0

Coupon 3

50

50

0

Coupon 4

50

50

0<