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BM with multiple positions

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Created by Claudia L on 2010-07-05 08:13:46 Back to Topics

BM with multiple positions

Hi.
For rejection memos the RAM requires that all subpositions of the RM should have the same routing, dates, etc. This has the effect that a rejection on such a RM will always have the same rejection reason for all items.
 
Will there be a similar restriction to positions on a billing memo? If so we should not have the necessity to reject the positions due to different reasons.
Please advise.
Replied by James S on 2010-07-07 07:58:06
Hi.
 
I'm not familiar with any such RAM rule that requires same routing, dates, etc. Which chapter are you reading?
 
Many of our discussions for SIS (including within the working groups) have used examples of rejecting an entire  invoice due to incorrect ISC charge, etc. You'd obviously have many coupons that don't have the same routing, dates, etc. You do, however, have to reject all positions for the same reason (e.g. ISC).
 
If the RAM does say that, then I expect that the WGs and RAWG will remove it.
 
The same principle will apply for BMs (all for same reason, but not necessarily same routing, etc).

.
Replied by Benjamin R (Lufthansa) on 2010-07-09 03:35:16
Hi,
 
The relevant RAM para is A10 3.1.5 respectively 3.1.6. Our concern is, that the BM may be "misused" for various kind of "crap" billings, mixed up in one memo. The billed airlines is forced to adhere to RAM though, as a result is forced to reject on several rejection memos to one BM.
Our question is, will it be made sure, that the RAM specifies similar rules for BM, e.g. when a BM is being raised for outside time reason code 8M, that all break down positions are for the same routing, carrying airlines fare etc. are the same? Otherwise airlines may be thrown back into similar troubles we are dealing today with.


From: SHANNON James
Posted: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 7:58 AM
Subject: BM with multiple positions

Hi.
 
I'm not familiar with any such RAM rule that requires same routing, dates, etc. Which chapter are you reading?
 
Many of our discussions for SIS (including within the working groups) have used examples of rejecting an entire  invoice due to incorrect ISC charge, etc. You'd obviously have many coupons that don't have the same routing, dates, etc. You do, however, have to reject all positions for the same reason (e.g. ISC).
 
If the RAM does say that, then I expect that the WGs and RAWG will remove it.
 
The same principle will apply for BMs (all for same reason, but not necessarily same routing, etc).

.
Replied by James S on 2010-07-09 09:10:55
Well, my reading of that is that the rule is, as I said, "for the same reason" (ie, reason code). What you refer to, the "same routing, dates, etc" rule, is just an extension of the above, where the reason is specifically for prorate difference. In essence, that's saying the same thing... because the underlying reason can't be the same if the general reason is prorate difference and there are different routings. On the other hand, there's no reason why you can't reject multiple coupons for ISC, where those coupons have different routings. This is reflected in my reading of the RAM.
 
As I said earlier, the rule is that all BMs must be for the same reason, but not for the same routing/etc. Personally, I think that 8M (outside time limit) is akin to ISC -- it doesn't matter much if each "subposition" had the same routing / date / etc.
 
If you wish, I can open a ticket with this request so that it can be formally discussed, but I expect that it'll be denied.
Replied by Benjamin R (Lufthansa) on 2010-07-09 09:41:30
Hi,
 
Thanks for the swift reply. I guess though I had something different in mind.
 
Today no RAM paragraph exists which deals with rules for debiting billing memos.
Tomorrow IATA introduces Reason Codes for BMs, some of  which actually are "non-primes" such as "Adjustment/suppl.Billing", whereas others very well can be deemed as "real primes" such as "outside time limit billings".
 
Imagine you are billed for a BM which consists of 10 breakdowns. All with different routings, carriers, fares. How would you reject this BM for prorate difference in one RM when RAM reads that you mustn't reject more than one item for prorate difference unless routing, carrier, fare of all concerned breakdowns are the same?
So my question is, how does IATA protect the billed carrier against such billings and ensures that the billed carrier can raise one RM to one BM without violating the RAM or being forced to raise several RMs to one BM?
 
thnx & rgds

 

From: SHANNON James
Posted: Friday, July 09, 2010 9:10 AM
Subject: BM with multiple positions

Well, my reading of that is that the rule is, as I said, "for the same reason" (ie, reason code). What you refer to, the "same routing, dates, etc" rule, is just an extension of the above, where the reason is specifically for prorate difference. In essence, that's saying the same thing... because the underlying reason can't be the same if the general reason is prorate difference and there are different routings. On the other hand, there's no reason why you can't reject multiple coupons for ISC, where those coupons have different routings. This is reflected in my reading of the RAM.
 
As I said earlier, the rule is that all BMs must be for the same reason, but not for the same routing/etc. Personally, I think that 8M (outside time limit) is akin to ISC -- it doesn't matter much if each "subposition" had the same routing / date / etc.
 
If you wish, I can open a ticket with this request so that it can be formally discussed, but I expect that it'll be denied.
Replied by James S on 2010-07-13 13:15:43
Ok. I understand now.
 
As you say, there's no RAM rule that handles this. Ticket #130 was created so that this will be discussed with the Pax WG and RAWG. This discussion will be updated after a decision is reached.

Replied by James S on 2010-09-01 16:46:26
Hi. This was discussed by the relevant WGs and a decision was taken: For BMs, SIS will ensure all coupon breakdown have same BM reason code; when the RM is raised against a BM, then the same RM rules apply as for RMs against prime billings. RAM A10; 3.1.5 will be re-written. James
 
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