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Number of occurrences of RM reason breakdown record

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Created by Shanti D (Air Canada) on 2011-07-29 00:51:53 Back to Topics

Number of occurrences of RM reason breakdown record

Hi

 

There appears to be a discrepancy between the ISPG and the record structures manual regarding the maximum possible occurrences of the reason breakdown record.

 

The ISPG (version 3.1.1) says on page 175, that there can be upto two occurrences only whereas the record structures manual (also version 3.1.1) maintains that upto 10 occurrences are permitted. (Previous versions of both manuals refer to 2 occurrences only).

 

We strongly feel that 800 characters (400 X 2) are more than enough to convey the justification for raising a rejection memo. 4000 chars on the other hand is a little excessive and would require greater amounts of storage space in our systems, in the event that airlines choose to use all 4000.

 

Please clarify.

 

Thanks

Shanti D'Souza

(Air Canada-Cargo)

Replied by Ashley H on 2011-08-04 10:55:18
Hi Shanti,
 
If I understand your question correctly, please allow me to clarify as follows. The Record Structures and the ISPG (both 3.1.1 and 3.2), Section 9.2/SIS and Supporting Documents state the same information - that up to 2 occurrences of 400 A/N each (up to 800) are allowed.
 
If you have a look at the Record Structures - PAX-RM Reason brkdwn Rec, line #9, where it states that up to 10 occurrences are allowed. Subsequently, lines 10-14 state that each remark (with serial number from 01-05) can be 80 A/N - so the total of 1 record (containing up to 5 remarks) is 400 [80 A/N*5 remarks]. In addition, 2 occurrences (i.e. records) are allowed, bringing this total to 800.
 
I realise that the use of the term 'occurrence' is repeated in different contexts, which may have caused the confusion. I hope this explanation clarifies your questions.
 
Regards,
Ashley

From:
Posted: Friday, July 29, 2011 12:51 AM
Subject: Number of occurrences of RM reason breakdown record

Hi

 

There appears to be a discrepancy between the ISPG and the record structures manual regarding the maximum possible occurrences of the reason breakdown record.

 

The ISPG (version 3.1.1) says on page 175, that there can be upto two occurrences only whereas the record structures manual (also version 3.1.1) maintains that upto 10 occurrences are permitted. (Previous versions of both manuals refer to 2 occurrences only).

 

We strongly feel that 800 characters (400 X 2) are more than enough to convey the justification for raising a rejection memo. 4000 chars on the other hand is a little excessive and would require greater amounts of storage space in our systems, in the event that airlines choose to use all 4000.

 

Please clarify.

 

Thanks

Shanti D'Souza

(Air Canada-Cargo)

Replied by Konda R (Qantas) on 2011-08-05 04:28:19

Hi

Please check this answer.

The SFI31 RM/BM/CM Reason Breakdown "Record" can be repeated up to 10 times.

Refer to PAX IS-IDEC Record Structure, 1.2. Occurrences of Data Record.

 
Konda/QF
 
 

From:
Posted: Thursday, August 04, 2011 10:55 AM
Subject: Number of occurrences of RM reason breakdown record

Hi Shanti,
 
If I understand your question correctly, please allow me to clarify as follows. The Record Structures and the ISPG (both 3.1.1 and 3.2), Section 9.2/SIS and Supporting Documents state the same information - that up to 2 occurrences of 400 A/N each (up to 800) are allowed.
 
If you have a look at the Record Structures - PAX-RM Reason brkdwn Rec, line #9, where it states that up to 10 occurrences are allowed. Subsequently, lines 10-14 state that each remark (with serial number from 01-05) can be 80 A/N - so the total of 1 record (containing up to 5 remarks) is 400 [80 A/N*5 remarks]. In addition, 2 occurrences (i.e. records) are allowed, bringing this total to 800.
 
I realise that the use of the term 'occurrence' is repeated in different contexts, which may have caused the confusion. I hope this explanation clarifies your questions.
 
Regards,
Ashley

From:
Posted: Friday, July 29, 2011 12:51 AM
Subject: Number of occurrences of RM reason breakdown record

Hi

 

There appears to be a discrepancy between the ISPG and the record structures manual regarding the maximum possible occurrences of the reason breakdown record.

 

The ISPG (version 3.1.1) says on page 175, that there can be upto two occurrences only whereas the record structures manual (also version 3.1.1) maintains that upto 10 occurrences are permitted. (Previous versions of both manuals refer to 2 occurrences only).

 

We strongly feel that 800 characters (400 X 2) are more than enough to convey the justification for raising a rejection memo. 4000 chars on the other hand is a little excessive and would require greater amounts of storage space in our systems, in the event that airlines choose to use all 4000.

 

Please clarify.

 

Thanks

Shanti D'Souza

(Air Canada-Cargo)

Replied by Shanti D (Air Canada) on 2011-08-05 07:16:05

Hi Ashley

 

We will take the maximum number of occurrences of SFI 36 to be 2.

 

However there IS a mistake in the record structures manual (ver 3.1.1). If you check the excel version, under worksheet "List of SFIs", it clearly says that for SFI 36, there will be max 10 occurrences of this RECORD per billing memo.

The same thing is repeated in the pdf version (page 9 - Matrix for Cargo Billing invoices) where it says 0-10 in the row for SFI 36.

 

In the previous versions (2.1) the manuals distinctly say 2 in both the cases mentioned above (max 2 occurrences in the excel copy and 0-2 in the pdf copy). So there is a CHANGE from the previous versions and the current ones. 

 

Nowhere has the term "occurrences" been used in the context of a field; it always refers to a record.

(SFI 37 on the other hand, has a max occurrence of 10 records. Perhaps the confusion in the manuals arose because of this).

 

Shanti D'Souza

(Air Canada - Cargo)


 

Replied by Shanti D (Air Canada) on 2011-09-09 10:34:42
Hi Ashley
 
As you can see, others are going by the Record Structures manual which clearly states that upto 10 records are permitted (see Konda Reddy's statement).
 
I do think the RS should be corrected to reflect the original maximum permitted reason breakdown records - which is 2 and not 10.
 
Regards
Shanti/AC

 

 
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