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Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format

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Created by Konda R (Qantas) on 2011-08-23 04:03:38 Back to Topics

Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format

ISPG section 11.3.4.1 states ATPCo will merge the downgraded Old IDEC data with the Old IDEC invoices received from non-migrated carriers and generate one consolidated output file and provide it to the billed carrier.

If in the Member Profile Output Files, the billed carrier does not select the "Down Converted IS Transaction To Old IDEC Format", does this mean that SIS billings will not be merged with non-SIS billings from non-migrated billings on Old IDEC?

Please confirm.

Konda/QF

Replied by Ashley H on 2011-09-06 13:50:29
Dear Konda,
 
Yes, that's correct - if this option is not selected, you will not receive invoices from SIS in Old IDEC format. Please also refer to the Member Profile Template (available on the SIS website and under the SIS Materials folder in the forum) for further details on the options in Member Profile Output Files.
 
Best regards

From:
Posted: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 4:03 AM
Subject: Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format

ISPG section 11.3.4.1 states ATPCo will merge the downgraded Old IDEC data with the Old IDEC invoices received from non-migrated carriers and generate one consolidated output file and provide it to the billed carrier.

If in the Member Profile Output Files, the billed carrier does not select the "Down Converted IS Transaction To Old IDEC Format", does this mean that SIS billings will not be merged with non-SIS billings from non-migrated billings on Old IDEC?

Please confirm.

Konda/QF

Replied by Erik M (SAS) on 2011-09-08 10:05:27
Hi Ashley,
 
How do I tick of/select the option you mention. I'm missing the 'edit' function in respect of that field?
 
Brgds,
Erik Madsen/SAS


From:
Posted: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 1:50 PM
Subject: Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format

Dear Konda,
 
Yes, that's correct - if this option is not selected, you will not receive invoices from SIS in Old IDEC format. Please also refer to the Member Profile Template (available on the SIS website and under the SIS Materials folder in the forum) for further details on the options in Member Profile Output Files.
 
Best regards

From:
Posted: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 4:03 AM
Subject: Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format

ISPG section 11.3.4.1 states ATPCo will merge the downgraded Old IDEC data with the Old IDEC invoices received from non-migrated carriers and generate one consolidated output file and provide it to the billed carrier.

If in the Member Profile Output Files, the billed carrier does not select the "Down Converted IS Transaction To Old IDEC Format", does this mean that SIS billings will not be merged with non-SIS billings from non-migrated billings on Old IDEC?

Please confirm.

Konda/QF

Replied by Ashley H on 2011-09-08 11:54:12

Hi Erik,

This functionality will only be enabled at go-live and not in the Sandbox environment. Therefore you will only be able to opt into this function in the Production environment.

Rgds,

Ashley

Replied by Konda R (Qantas) on 2011-09-08 17:31:34
Hi Ashley

I am concerned with this answer. If a carrier has not signed the Participation Agreement before close of October Period 1 , they will not have access to production IS-WEB and therefore will be unable to amend their Member Profile? If this is the case, then they will not get the correct output files required for their SIS migration strategy. 

Given the delay in the release of the Participation Agreement, I don't think this is an acceptable position. 

Konda/QF

Replied by Ashley H on 2011-09-12 09:34:16

Hi Konda,

To supplement my previous post, the Down Converted IS Transaction To Old IDEC Format option is available in the Member Profile to be configured by the Member. As a default setting, this option is selected (checked off) for all current IDEC users (to allow non-migrated carriers to receive the appropriate output files) – this is also documented in the Member Profile Template available on both the SIS website and SIS Forum.

If you not wish to have this option, it is important that you configure this in your Member Profile accordingly prior to the closing date of the Sandbox.

Best regards

 

Replied by Claudia L (Lufthansa) on 2011-09-13 08:13:11
Ashley,
as far as we know the checkbox for "downconverted IDEC" is not active in Sandbox, all other items are editable but this one is not. We can only amend it on the production version of IS-Web as we were told. Your statement is confusing us now. Please advise.
Thanks
Claudia (LH)

From:
Posted: Monday, September 12, 2011 9:34 AM
Subject: Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format

Hi Konda,

To supplement my previous post, the Down Converted IS Transaction To Old IDEC Format option is available in the Member Profile to be configured by the Member. As a default setting, this option is selected (checked off) for all current IDEC users (to allow non-migrated carriers to receive the appropriate output files) – this is also documented in the Member Profile Template available on both the SIS website and SIS Forum.

If you not wish to have this option, it is important that you configure this in your Member Profile accordingly prior to the closing date of the Sandbox.

Best regards

 

Replied by Ashley H on 2011-09-13 09:23:08

Hi Claudia,

Sorry for this confusion. This option IS available to be configured in the Member Profile. So all current IDEC users in SIS will have this option selected as a default setting. If you would not like this output file option, then it is important that you deselect (uncheck) this in your Member Profile before Sandbox closes for the change to be reflected at go-live.

We realised this has been causing some confusion lately; we have amended the Member Profile Template to clarify this topic. Please refer to the latest version of this file available on both the SIS website and the SIS Forum (changes are done in red and there is also a Change Log available in the template).

Best regards,

Ashley

Replied by Shanti D (Air Canada) on 2011-09-13 09:31:10
Hi Ashley
 
This entire thread has confused me.
 
If one is not currently an IDEC user, this option is not of any relevance.
 
Migrated airlines (ready to receive IS-format billings) ought not to be concerned with down-converted data, so again this option is not relevant.
 
This then is only for current IDEC users who will not be "migrated" in time. For these entities, SIS has by default checked off the option to include down-converted IS_format data along with the old IDEC data. This appears to me to be a good thing (why would any carrier not want to receive SIS billings along with non-SIS billings).
 
 
But if this option has already been "selected" by SIS, why do so many airlines wish to edit this option in the sandbox? Are they all current IDEC users who will not be IS-format ready and also do not wish to receive SIS billings along with non-SIS billings in the old IDEC file? I don't think so.
What am I missing? 
 
Thanks
Shanti/AC
 
Replied by Ashley H on 2011-09-13 15:24:52

HI Shanti,

 

If one is not currently an IDEC user, this option is irrelevant – yes, this is correct. Therefore, this option is grayed out (not editable) in the Member Profile for non-IDEC users.

 

Migrated airlines (ready to receive/process IS-format billings) ought not to be concerned with down-converted data – this is also correct. However, some airlines may choose to receive down-converted data as well as a backup, depending on their internal SIS migration strategy. So, as a migrated carrier, you may choose to receive one or several of the following options from your migrated billing partner:

-         IS-IDEC

-         IS-XML

-         Old IDEC down-converted (if the Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format option is checked)

[Again, you may choose this for backup reasons during your migration phase where you are using the new system for the first time]

 

For current IDEC users who are not yet migrated, this option is crucial as this is the only way they can receive invoices from their migrated billing partner. This is why the default setting for this option is ‘checked’.

 

I hope this helps clarifies your concerns. Please also refer to the Technical Migration presentation on the SIS website (under SIS Media) for a detailed explanation of the output files available to migrated and non-migrated entities.

 

Regards,

Ashley

Replied by Shanti D (Air Canada) on 2011-09-14 06:20:32

Hi Ashley

 

Actually there was no doubt in my mind at all as to why this option should be checked by non-migrated IDEC users. My concern was why there were at least 3 airlines interested in unchecking this option, especially when all these airlines appear to be ready to process/receive IS-format files.

 

After reading your reply, I thought that since this option has been checked off for all current IDEC users regardless of whether they will be migrated or not, it means that migrated carriers (who are also current IDEC users) will receive SIS billings in the IS-format files as well as in the old IDEC file which would create duplicate billings to migrated carriers. Which is why "unchecking" the option becomes important for migrated carriers.

 

But then I looked up the “Technical Migration” presentation as suggested by you, and realized that this is not correct – migrated carriers will never receive SIS billings in the old IDEC file – please see slide #5. This is also in accordance with the ISPG (section 11.3.4.1).  If this is the case:-

(1)     How do migrated carriers receive an extra set of back-up data?

(2)     Back to my original question – why would a migrated carrier uncheck the option when it is irrelevant to them?

 

Please clarify if the Technical Migration presentation/ISPG are correct or not. If they are not, and what you have said in your reply is the correct situation, then airlines would:-

(1)     “Uncheck” this option to avoid double billing.

(2)     Leave it alone to receive back-up billings.

Is this correct?

 

Regards

Shanti/AC




From:
Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 3:24 PM
Subject: Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format

HI Shanti,

 

If one is not currently an IDEC user, this option is irrelevant – yes, this is correct. Therefore, this option is grayed out (not editable) in the Member Profile for non-IDEC users.

 

Migrated airlines (ready to receive/process IS-format billings) ought not to be concerned with down-converted data – this is also correct. However, some airlines may choose to receive down-converted data as well as a backup, depending on their internal SIS migration strategy. So, as a migrated carrier, you may choose to receive one or several of the following options from your migrated billing partner:

-         IS-IDEC

-         IS-XML

-         Old IDEC down-converted (if the Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format option is checked)

[Again, you may choose this for backup reasons during your migration phase where you are using the new system for the first time]

 

For current IDEC users who are not yet migrated, this option is crucial as this is the only way they can receive invoices from their migrated billing partner. This is why the default setting for this option is ‘checked’.

 

I hope this helps clarifies your concerns. Please also refer to the Technical Migration presentation on the SIS website (under SIS Media) for a detailed explanation of the output files available to migrated and non-migrated entities.

 

Regards,

Ashley

Replied by Ashley H on 2011-09-14 15:17:31

Hi Shanti,

Slide 5 of the Technical Migration provides you with an overview of the old IDEC file process between migrated and non-migrated billed entities. However, what should not be implied from this slide is that migrated carriers will never receive SIS billings in the old IDEC file – this is not correct. The ISPG v3.2, Section 11.3.4.1 also does not state as such. If you look at the previous slide (slide 4) of the Technical Migration presentation, you will see that the Old IDEC down-converted goes from ATPCO to the billed entity, regardless of migrated or non-migrated.

So referring to my previous post, if the Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format is checked for a migrated entity, they will receive SIS billings in both IS-Format and Old IDEC format, which as you mentioned, may not be an option a migrated billed entity would like to choose. In this regard, this is an option SIS gives and it is up to the migrated billed carrier to opt in/out to suit their internal SIS migration strategy.

Hope this helps.

Rgds,

Ashley

Replied by Shanti D (Air Canada) on 2011-09-16 03:07:08
Hi Ashley

I now see why we appeared to be talking at cross-purposes - I was referring to ISPG ver 3.1 which has since been modified to ver 3.2 and so I stand corrected. I still feel that the Technical Migration presentation is misleading and should be rectified just in case anybody refers to this document alone while devising their strategy (especially because this issue is of such a critical nature).

Thank you for being so patient.

Regards

Shanti/AC

 
Replied by Ashley H on 2011-09-16 10:55:10

Hi Shanti,

 

It was my pleasure. I will also pass this comment on to the owner of the presentation.

 

Rgds,

Ashley

Replied by Riikka T (Finnair) on 2011-10-13 07:20:27
Hello Ashley,
 
You mention about the selection of Down Converted IS Transaction to Old IDEC Format that "all current IDEC users in SIS will have this option selected as a default setting". This is also mentioned in SIS Bulletin (Sep issue 3). Now that I'm checking this option, it is not selected and there is no way to edit it! We need also this down converted file, so please advice what to do and why it's not selected. I already contacted SIS Help Desk but haven't received any answer yet.
 
Riikka


From:
Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 9:38 AM
Subject: Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format

Hi Claudia,

Sorry for this confusion. This option IS available to be configured in the Member Profile. So all current IDEC users in SIS will have this option selected as a default setting. If you would not like this output file option, then it is important that you deselect (uncheck) this in your Member Profile before Sandbox closes for the change to be reflected at go-live.

We realised this has been causing some confusion lately; we have amended the Member Profile Template to clarify this topic. Please refer to the latest version of this file available on both the SIS website and the SIS Forum (changes are done in red and there is also a Change Log available in the template).

Best regards,

Ashley

Replied by Ashley H on 2011-10-13 10:14:20

Hi Rikka,

 

We have raised a Help Desk case from your email regarding this issue. The case has now been solved pending your review and acceptance, for your reference the case # is 01987203.

Kind regards,

Ashley

 

From: TURUNEN Riikka
Posted At: Thursday, October 13, 2011 7:20 AM
Posted To: SIS Forums - Requirements & Functionality
Conversation: Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format
Subject: Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format

 

Hello Ashley,

 

You mention about the selection of Down Converted IS Transaction to Old IDEC Format that "all current IDEC users in SIS will have this option selected as a default setting". This is also mentioned in SIS Bulletin (Sep issue 3). Now that I'm checking this option, it is not selected and there is no way to edit it! We need also this down converted file, so please advice what to do and why it's not selected. I already contacted SIS Help Desk but haven't received any answer yet.

 

Riikka


From:
Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 9:38 AM
Subject: Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format

Hi Claudia,

Sorry for this confusion. This option IS available to be configured in the Member Profile. So all current IDEC users in SIS will have this option selected as a default setting. If you would not like this output file option, then it is important that you deselect (uncheck) this in your Member Profile before Sandbox closes for the change to be reflected at go-live.

We realised this has been causing some confusion lately; we have amended the Member Profile Template to clarify this topic. Please refer to the latest version of this file available on both the SIS website and the SIS Forum (changes are done in red and there is also a Change Log available in the template).

Best regards,

Ashley

Replied by Riikka T (Finnair) on 2011-10-14 00:49:08
Hi Ashley,
 
Thank you, the down converted option is now selected on our member profile.
 
I'm still wondering what has happened. Why the option was not selected even though it was mentioned several times before go-live that it is selected in every profile (IDEC users). And have we already missed something or will we get all the data also in down converted format? How often is this down converted file created?
 
Thanks for your help!
 
BRGDS,
Riikka


From:
Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:14 AM
Subject: Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format

Hi Rikka,

 

We have raised a Help Desk case from your email regarding this issue. The case has now been solved pending your review and acceptance, for your reference the case # is 01987203.

Kind regards,

Ashley

 

From: TURUNEN Riikka
Posted At: Thursday, October 13, 2011 7:20 AM
Posted To: SIS Forums - Requirements & Functionality
Conversation: Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format
Subject: Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format

 

Hello Ashley,

 

You mention about the selection of Down Converted IS Transaction to Old IDEC Format that "all current IDEC users in SIS will have this option selected as a default setting". This is also mentioned in SIS Bulletin (Sep issue 3). Now that I'm checking this option, it is not selected and there is no way to edit it! We need also this down converted file, so please advice what to do and why it's not selected. I already contacted SIS Help Desk but haven't received any answer yet.

 

Riikka


From:
Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 9:38 AM
Subject: Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format

Hi Claudia,

Sorry for this confusion. This option IS available to be configured in the Member Profile. So all current IDEC users in SIS will have this option selected as a default setting. If you would not like this output file option, then it is important that you deselect (uncheck) this in your Member Profile before Sandbox closes for the change to be reflected at go-live.

We realised this has been causing some confusion lately; we have amended the Member Profile Template to clarify this topic. Please refer to the latest version of this file available on both the SIS website and the SIS Forum (changes are done in red and there is also a Change Log available in the template).

Best regards,

Ashley

Replied by Ashley H on 2011-10-14 15:03:56

Hi Rikka,

 

The SIS Help Desk has attended to this issue and ensured that the data is transposed accordingly.

 

The Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format is an option that will take immediate effect upon any changes. So you will be able to receive your down-converted data for the current period billings. The merged old IDEC file (which contains both old IDEC down-converted and old IDEC data) is sent from ATPCO on a monthly basis, so you will receive your first file in November.

 

Kind regards,

Ashley

 

From: TURUNEN Riikka
Posted At: Friday, October 14, 2011 12:49 AM
Posted To: SIS Forums - Requirements & Functionality
Conversation: Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format
Subject: Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format

 

Hi Ashley,

 

Thank you, the down converted option is now selected on our member profile.

 

I'm still wondering what has happened. Why the option was not selected even though it was mentioned several times before go-live that it is selected in every profile (IDEC users). And have we already missed something or will we get all the data also in down converted format? How often is this down converted file created?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

BRGDS,

Riikka


From:
Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:14 AM
Subject: Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format

Hi Rikka,

 

We have raised a Help Desk case from your email regarding this issue. The case has now been solved pending your review and acceptance, for your reference the case # is 01987203.

Kind regards,

Ashley

 

From: TURUNEN Riikka
Posted At: Thursday, October 13, 2011 7:20 AM
Posted To: SIS Forums - Requirements & Functionality
Conversation: Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format
Subject: Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format

 

Hello Ashley,

 

You mention about the selection of Down Converted IS Transaction to Old IDEC Format that "all current IDEC users in SIS will have this option selected as a default setting". This is also mentioned in SIS Bulletin (Sep issue 3). Now that I'm checking this option, it is not selected and there is no way to edit it! We need also this down converted file, so please advice what to do and why it's not selected. I already contacted SIS Help Desk but haven't received any answer yet.

 

Riikka


From:
Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 9:38 AM
Subject: Downgrade of IS-Format data to Old IDEC format

Hi Claudia,

Sorry for this confusion. This option IS available to be configured in the Member Profile. So all current IDEC users in SIS will have this option selected as a default setting. If you would not like this output file option, then it is important that you deselect (uncheck) this in your Member Profile before Sandbox closes for the change to be reflected at go-live.

We realised this has been causing some confusion lately; we have amended the Member Profile Template to clarify this topic. Please refer to the latest version of this file available on both the SIS website and the SIS Forum (changes are done in red and there is also a Change Log available in the template).

Best regards,

Ashley

 
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